It’s improper to be required to play base-game for 2-3 hours in order to be allowed to play DLC? That seem’s odd to me. Plus, it gives you opportune time to level a character to 35 so you stand the best chance of survival on Cataclysm. I don’t see the issue.
Is there something wrong with the Borderlands 2 DLC, Tiny Tina’s Assault on Dragon Keep, then? That’s End-Game content; if you’re not at the correct point in the game, you might have to play through the entire game to get there, which could be 20+ hours of gameplay.
The same thing is present in Risk of Rain 2? Many characters/items/styles of play are barred behind achievements, and those are even base-game items. The same was the case with RoR1.
Most games require you to play the base game to experience parts of the DLC, and that’s not new nor is it villainy. In this case, it’s a simple check to see if you are ready before you dive in again, I don’t see the issue, but it doesn’t hurt me if you don’t like it and you are welcome to your opinion!
For the record, I agree with you, but the difference here is that level grinding was arbitrarily added to the game post-release, in comparison to something like BL2 where you just had to complete the story mode to be at a decent level for all the expacs(I thought they scaled with you anyway?).
It isn’t a deal-breaker, but it’s not hard to imagine people feeling like the collective days they’ve already spent playing were undone, or at least made pointless by the change. They just want the time they’ve already invested to have meant something.
It’s nice to see someone so upbeat about the updates, in any case. Keep it up, bud!
Im actually refering to the fact that gaining access to reds and top tier weapons really is gated behind at the very least champion content. Maybe reds aren’t your thing but they are a thing and they are a DLC feature of older DLC’s so obviously they were advertised as a selling point.
My son plays legend with me and champion when hes with pubs. He’l be lucky to clear veteran runs with pubs now and I certainly can’t carry him through legend anymore. This is content that he had access to which is now denied him. He’s not going to like it, in fact hes flatly going to stop playing and legitimately so. Which is a shame cause hes the the last regular player I have been playing with lately and from what I cans see there aren’t going to be a lot of new players.
I mean, I’ve inducted 3 players in the past 24 hours and most of them have just broken level 10 on their first characters! I have faith that the game has gained users in the WoM transaction
Red-Weapons don’t win you the game and, more importantly, aren’t DLC. You can achieve any Veteran Item from an Emperor’s Chest (highest tier chest of Champion Difficulty) but you are more likely to get one from a Solider’s Vault (mid-tier chest of Legend Difficulty) and up. They are part of the base-game.
Also: since Thursday’s(?) update, the game is easier than it was pre-2.0 so I think your son will likely still keep it up on the Champion difficulty, especially if he is Zealot Saltzpyre. Might even jump him up top Legend, honestly.
Lastly, Veteran items aren’t really content, at least not in my eyes. They’re a way to experience content, sure, but they’re no different than a Legendary weapon other than minuscule tweaks that allow for 1-2 breakpoints.
@Osrali you make an excellent point; I honestly feel the same way, but… I also don’t see the point in being irritated by it. The time I’d spent wasn’t helping me anyways; I knew I was just playing for fun. Retroactively gaining perks for it would be nice, but the time was already spent in my eyes All IMO, of course
This would be easier and more feasible to agree with if Cataclysm wasn’t a difficulty that now existed and that the existing difficulties balance has been… shifted to say the least. I actually LIKE when games end in failure because it makes me consider how I can improve.
New Legend ain’t like that especially with some of these spawning problems coming back (point blank rattling spawns anyone? WIll I need to make another compilation of 50 videos for it to be believed that this is a thing this time or can they take our word). Some of the talent on a small amount of careers synergies just feel obtuse like you’re gated into proper ways to play and no longer get the benefit to pick and choose with preference to main or secondary weapons or ranged. Again I LIKE failure because it removes routine and makes you feel engaged in the action. What I don’t like is not having fun.
I actually wasn’t entirely okay with how our current “end game” difficulty was because it was a bit easy to just basically solo these maps with the other players existing for accident fixing in the off chance you got hooked, pounced, or leeched. So when I heard cata was going to be a thing I was beside myself in joy. Legend can continue to exist for people who want a reliable way for reds and Cataclysm could exist for people who want a challenge they can QP into as deeds don’t fill that niche. What we got was a completely rebalanced Legend feel, complete overhaul of jobs, and a shuffling (in some cases garroting) of some inbuilt traits/functionality of some career skills. It just feels like a hell of a lot to change without getting some real solid community feedback.
And I’ve gotta say I absolutely hate having to give feedback like this. At the amount of hours I’ve got in this game I’m slowly losing my ability to give two cares. And I don’t feel like doing another thread with hundreds of responses like we threw up when 1.8 hit. So I’m going to have to throw in the towel for now and just get back to playing. Give it a couple dozen of hours and see if it doesn’t mesh well or not. I’ve sunk cost enough to put in that much effort. Somebody else is going to have to make the super post about Slayer feels.
This argument is not solid. Your experience isn’t universal. If reds aren’t meaningful why did fat shark spend so much time shutting down red farming, why did players spend so much time finding ways to find them.
Ignoring that I’m just sad to lose my last running buddy. It was something I really liked doing running legend with my son, something intimate and something I don’t want to lose.
If you think dodging is random you have a problem with connection/hardware.
I had the same problem for a long time, then I stopped joining games and I started hosting them.
It completely changed my experience.
Check latency and fps - they have a huge impact on the difference between dodging a hit and being hit by a rat’s back.
Fatshark is one step away from turning Vermintide 2 into a lootbox gambling simulator. Except then, it’ll absorb not only your time, but also your money. Furthermore, they have been INCREASINGLY lazy in the content they churn out, and you want to support them? For doing a worse job??
I’ve had some more time with it and unequivicably no.
This DLC is not worth it. Weaves are to me personally and in every sense a buyers remorse scenario.
This is the something fatshark need to address and I’m sure its a kind of philisophical dicsussion for them (as it is for my friends who discuss modern games and design). They didn’t add new missions and objective with there previous content they added more grind. All the pretty aesthetic stuff is hidden behind ‘grind’. All the backlash over the talents being moved was a backlash against arbitrary addition of grind.
People are sick of grinding. They want to play and feel rewarded for that play time. We need purpose to that grind a sense of progress or achievement but at this stage Fatshark doesn’t seem to be leveling the experience. Grind for commendation boxes… how many hours of game play does it take to complete a red set for a single player… 10, 100, 1000? When do I hit that satisfactory weave completion moment when all my time and effort reaches a cathartic climax. Nope just reset…
Are we resetting for new content, different items and new build opportunities? Nope just for another commendation box. Why are we resetting? An excuse to grind.
It’s hard to matchmake into them outside of peak hours
You need to own the DLC to match into them, which means you can’t have your friends join you in the Weaves unless they pay the $20
Each Weave has no replayability, since you don’t get as much essence from replaying Weaves and the spawns are static, like Fortunes of War. So, you play each one once and never again, like Fortunes of War.
The grinding system is somewhat tedious. I’d have said extremely tedious, but they made it slightly better. It’s… still pretty boring.
When you hit a wall in the Weaves for the first time, it’s going to be because your gear is probably not caught up with the Weave you’re at. If you want to experiment with a different loadout, you have to re-level that weapon so it’s harder to progress. It’s… pretty boring.
I don’t really care for Cataclysm
There’s only a few Okri’s Challenges portrait frames. No cosmetics to play for like Legend/Champion.
You just get a bunch of Commendation Chests for a lot of the challenges, like they gave up halfway through making the challenge rewards.
There’s no Cataclysm-tier vaults. You get the same loot as Legend.
There’s less people playing Cataclysm since you need the DLC to matchmake individually into it, so it’s harder to find games and you’re also going to be more likely to fail with quickplayers.
The stagger system really only heavily affects Cataclysm, so a lot of the weapon diversity just shifts to heavier weapons like shields and big two-handers. Also flamethrowers too.
Also it’s a difficulty you have to pay for, which is weird. I think I’d forgive the half-baked nature of the difficulty if it was a free content patch, but it’s not.
The weapons are good, but the throwing axes are the only one that feels super fun. Even then, they leave me with a bad taste in my mouth because of how they remove a key weakness of Slayer. Kinda weird to me. Other ones feel normalish.
Beastmen are kinda weird and inconsistent. They feel like they’re infesting all the maps to the point where I ask other people without the DLC to host if I get tired of every map being a Beastie Boys concert, which feels weird.
Dark Omens is fun. It’s one map, but it’s a pretty decent one.
A lot of the stuff is fixable, I guess, but I’d still probably say pass unless you know you have friends that’ll play the content with you. The Winds of Magic expansion seems like it was designed around premade groups who all bought the DLC, not random quickplay lobbies.
I’d say no, even though I’d really like more people to play it so I can experience the full content that I’ve paid for, since matchmaking is really slow. I doubt the content will actually feel fun when I reach the higher weaves, since the Champion/Legend weaves in the original betas didn’t seem that engaging because of the grind.
If they fixed a lot of the stuff, and I mean a lot, it might be a “maybe” at $10. I don’t see the value. I feel like the development cost to fix this expansion in season 2 to be worth $20 seems pretty large, from an outside perspective. I didn’t list all my gripes with WoM, I only listed a subset of them.
Even if things were improved, it’s a hard sell to convince someone “oh hey buy this game on sale for $7.49 and buy this DLC that’s $20”.
In the words of Captain Price: “It’s not hard to improve on garbage.”
I used to feel the same way about Vermintide, until I sank 1400 hours into it. How much do you make an hour? $15? $30? $50? How much does that come out to? $42,000 roughly at $30. I could’ve bought a new car by now!
Your time is a commodity, and Fatshark WASTES it with mechanics that force you to GRIND for loot boxes which are quickly being revealed as MORE AND MORE egregious and manipulative. They might not charge you money through micro-transactions, but don’t think for a second that you’re not paying with something.
The loot system in V2 and V1 has been a topic of much discussion for a LONG time, and now they’ve added a seasonal grind for a second weapons loadout, broken the original pace of the game, and re-purposed old levels instead of creating new content.
You’re delusional if you think this DLC is worth the $20 price tag.
Yes, Fatshark absolutely forced you to spend >1000 hours of your life, and you would have totally spent that time super productively otherwise. And by playing the game for so much it is clear that it is absolutely bad and not fun and it’s clear that FS can’t make a fun game.
Yes, but my post was a reply to @Professional ssional . The overly dramatic portraying of Fatshark as evil and incompetent, while spending thousands of hours on the game and then portraying yourself as some sort of victim is just too silly not to comment on.
I’m giving my time willingly, it’s not something that’s forced upon me by FS. Also I don’t have to give anyone my money if I don’t want to. My choise again.
You really have to explain to me how releasing a dlc that includes: New enemy faction, 5 new weapons, new map, new game difficulty and a new game mode (literally more content than there has ever been in a Vermintide DLC) increasingly lazy?
PSA- It doesn’t. When you get to weave 40 you get to do it all again just on a higher difficulty and not all original maps have been chopped up for weaves. Halescourge would have been a good choice. It’s not there.
again, I don’t see the issue, but it doesn’t hurt me if you don’t like it and you are welcome to your opinion!