Someone can be the “target market” of a product without agreeing with that product to begin with.
I highly doubt that people with spending addictions adore micro-transactions, but that doesn’t stop most triple AAA game companies from trying to exploit them for cash either way (unrelated, but hopefully it gets the point across).
That doesn’t excuse @Argonaut14 's alleged “resentment” of these “elite gamers” of course, considering they aren’t to blame for the changes made to the game. The resentment should instead be directed towards those that pushed the change in the first place, if directed anywhere at all.
Dodge was overtuned (although it did enable people to play with friends living further away), it’s the way stagger was implemented that we (playing Cata) weren’t happy with.
I know. But that doesn’t mean it’s their fault, at the end of the day FS chose to do it this way and chose not to listen the community. Hell, live Legend had become too easy for me but I never once would’ve dreamed they would touch the core combat mechanics, I loved the core combat mechanics.
Mhm. Problem here is we aren’t addicts, we can quit.
Agreed. I’m going to have to give it a go once I have time (playing with people who’ve bought the xpac) and people are used to the new gameplay (be it they’ve accepted it or quit), then I’ll decide if I want to buy it for myself (maybe it’ll’ve been patched in the mean time). But it looks like the design issues from previous betas remain.
The BBB also generated massive backlach, but long term it improved things. The lack of content thereafter was the main problem. Here I’m worried it’s the WoM tweaks themselves that’ll be the problem.
Kindly spoken: you and @LordRhinark are saying the same thing. Having a distaste for a group of gamers because content was directed at them is absolutely ridiculous and I think we can all agree on it!
Well, if you’re hip to playing with a host in the U.S., I’m likely going to pick it up and any number of people are welcome to piggy-back on it. I don’t play a ton, but I’ll play my fair share
It seems like most folks don’t believe things are going to smooth-out… the same reaction happened when the BBB hit, the scary part is that a lot of our regulars seem to have been suddenly shaken. I’m going to be honest, I really do believe that FatShark is going to handle this update very well as time goes on.
The DLC is literally weapons, cata, weaves and absolutely horribly balanced map. If you have 0 interest for those then you can still occasionally enjoy beastman by just quickplaying and you still get everything out (good or bad) of the new talents,levels and re-balancing.
I’d personally argue that the main selling point for most people that is cataclysm is not worth 16 € but of course that is very subjective. Some people might even consider throwing axes worth the 16 € alone but i don’t.
It’s in their explanation for the “expansion”.
If they released Weaves only, it would have been a huge bust. I still don’t get where they got the idea of making static levels into a game where the main selling point is the AI director mixing up everything in every run.
So, they had to add content they knew people would gobble up - weapons, a map (as usual), beastmen for a lack of more maps. And then as a cherry on top, Cata.
This expansion is a clear tie-in and forces you to spend money on things you don’t want if you want to have things you do want.
I’d love to but playing with newbie friends in the US I already get very high ping (like enemies TPing 5m at a time at random moments), I dunno how it’d handle in the higher difficulties with the dodge changes.
It might and I guess the advantage of me not being able to play until September is I get to be there afterward instead of during, but the BBB didn’t alter fundamental parts of the game, it was basically a rebalance and made dodging much much easier and way more effective. Some people already mainly used pushes, positioning and CC to avoid damage. Stagger alters the combat and the balance, one can’t ignore it.
Another problem is the BBB pushed people away from ranged combat which was dominant at the time, but by reducing the potency of melee here by reducing cleave and CC across the board I’m concerned it’s just going back the other way again.
But mainly I don’t get why FS put all that time into balancing weapons and then decided to basically go back to the beginning, shielded weapons and certain other weapons were doing badly before, but I feel like we just traded the ones doing badly with the ones doing alright.
Beer in my country, imported one, is €1.33, so that’s 12, almost 13 beers.
Nothing personal, but spending €70 on a bad game is your decision, not everyone does that. So you are telling us to be realistic and then you say that you’ve spent dozens of that amount of money on games which were inferior in quality/content when compared to Vermintide. My only question is why? But again, that was your choice, nobody can tell you how and what will you spend your money on.
I stopped playing Diablo long before rifts came out. I got back for the rifts, tried it, didn’t like it and stopped playing Diablo for good.
I don’t like that you need to grind for your gear and levels in Weaves. And if they will reset your progression at the end of the season, well that’s something that I really hate, progress reset. That’s why I hadn’t like seasons in Diablo and NEVER had a seasonal character. I want my progress to stay.
If they released 3 maps and some skins + the rest of the content from Weaves of Magic, I would’ve gladly payed €20, even €30. But, after 9 MONTHS of no new content they release this…
Conclusion
Now, do you understand that not all the players are the same, beer doesn’t cost the same around the world, not all of us like the same things that you do, not all of us spend money on bad products, and more importantly, can you notice that there’s a lot of negative feedback about WoM? And yet, you are telling us to be realistic.
Well, I bought the DLC in the hype, but some hours after the blood came back in to my head, I refounded it in Steam.
Why? Weaves are meh for me, new traits are free, my main heroe FK has no new weapon, no new skins, no illusions… I like beastman and new map (only one) but not for 17€ so, i will buy with disccount.
My comment about the handful of elite gamers, is a direct quote from a Blogpost that stated the entire redesign was formulated by FS to use “a handful of elite gamers” as the baseline to build the difficulty for everyone. If those elite types can’t do it, then that’s where the starting point will be.
Of course I don’t personally hate or resent those individuals who form that group as I’ve never met them, but the whole premise that it is a great starting point to use the skill level of those top tier players as a measuring stick for everything else has built my resentment. Coupled with the fact it appears that anything people have said during the Open/Closed betas has been largely ignored - I challenge anyone who has written well thought out constructive posts in the beta-fora to NOT be resentful.
I’m already finding more success as FK with repeater gun and the power increases and HS with Blunderbus than shield&sword or 2h hammer. Ranged meta is back baby!
It may well level out in the future.
Considering there are game-crashing bugs still here, it’s likely the bug-squashing will be done first before balancing. Don’t forget people have to work towards the power increase max-cap now too which will alter the perception of players until they get to max cap again. Possibly FS will wait to do balancing until people are Max Cap again?
This isn’t the BBB getting rid of Wigglemancer et al, it’s a complete rebuild of virtually everything we’re familiar with, and completely change the magnificent combat of 1.6 at your peril.
Well, after finally getting around to playing some 2.0... it feels *amazing*.
The spearmen in the Gor Herds are a cool and unique challenge to take on, I’m absolutely enthralled by how the Beastmen sound and look (I LOVE their battlecries…), I love how the Bestigors act and the animations for their charge, I’ve been a huge fan of the density on the hordes (it seems like there’s more enemies than in the past but it’s just because they don’t run themselves into the lawn-mower any more), it feels absolutely epic to dance through a horde to get to a banner, the archers can encourage dodging for newer players and accentuates the need to use every defensive/offensive tool in your arsenal… and the stagger mechanic is really fun.
We played with a Foot-Knight (Mace & Shield) and an Iron-Breaker (Hammer & Shield) and it was a riot when, suddenly, we surrounded the horde! We corralled them into a little ball and smashed them to itty-bitty bits! Given how the horde placing works, I thought it was really cool to force density upon them.
I also love that you finally have to work for Legend. Instead of: “Now that you are max-level you can play Legend like it was Recruit,” you have to actually try. Top notch stuff, IMO!
I suppose it’s still dependent on the player, but I’ve had 4 hours of great fun with WoM already… and the new level is pretty rad. Hard, but fun to watch the Bestigors haul-ass into your team
TL;DR: Absolutely worth every penny spent. I’m loving 2.0 and it feels fantastic, but WoM is such a nice topping to it all (for me, anyway).
The game is still fun, but that has never been a problem. Vermintide has always been fun for me. It’s the lack of adequate content that’s causing me to grumble.
I’ve been reading the light novel, “Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon?”. And now I keep picturing @Argonaut14 as a white haired bunny rabbit kid. As the main characters special ability is called Argonaut.
~back on topic~
Just play the game, the patch went live for everyone. Jump into some QPs and if anyone in the party has the DLC. You’ll see some beastmen and can make your decision. You should eventually get into a Dark Omens map as well via QP with that group. Try that stuff out first, if you enjoy it and want to play weaves as well. Grab the expansion.
This “expansion” feels like Blizzard releasing a hard mode of Molten Core, with tougher enemies, but with the same loot and just an achivement as a reward…
This DLC has such a lack of content I think it’s a reach to even call it a patch. They’ve added nothing! And no, I don’t give two shpipples about weaves, that system is boring, grindy and tbh, they should remove it.
1: It was an example of what Cataclysm in V2 is, it’s harder but you get the same reward as legend, at this moment that is.
2: I only used this as an example to make a point.
3: Have they really done that? I just made an exaggeration to make it look dumb. If so, of course it should be free ^^, just like the things they’ve added in WOM, none of these things should be a part of a DLC/expansion.
Might be redundant, but I’m just gonna quote myself here (the original thread is locked so I can’t direct quote) :
So, over the course of 9 months, from March 2018 to December 2018 we had 5 new maps and a big update in game mechanics.
We can say that from December 2018 up until now we haven’t had any major content updates because I really can’t say that the anniversary event was a major update. That brings us to the logical assumption that Fat Shark has been working on Winds of Magic throughout that time.
So, what are we getting in WoM? We are getting beastmen, now this is a major thing because a lot of us have been asking for a new race. But then, we are getting weaves, platform which should, in theory, extend the life of this game. But the problem is, although a lot of us have positive reviews about the concept of weaves, if you go through the comments and surveys, that’s not the content that the majority expected or wished for, at least not now.
So there was no new content for 8 months, and then finally when the big expansion is coming, we are getting something that we haven’t had asked for (bestmen excluded). I think that’s a great risk. Was it worth spending 8 months developing Weaves? I’m skeptic about that. We are yet to see how big of a thing will weaves be.
Would’ve been better if they had worked on beastmen and 3 new maps instead on weaves? I certainly think it would have.
As the main characters special ability is called Argonaut.