I was watching one of j_sat’s streams the other day and he mentioned that the modded realm will not have any loot rewards. Is this true? It seems like a really bad solution to me…
I understand the need to provide a “pure” cheat-free experience for new players and those who want to stay in the official realm, but I feel like a lot of serious players will want to be in the modded realm instead for fixes, QoL tweaks and mutations that Fatshark deem unsuitable for mass consumption, or just take their time in approving.
Disabling all loot will make the modded realm rather frustrating unless you already have 1000+ hours with all the weapon variation you could possibly want.
Instead, why not simply flag all loot gained or changed in the modded realm as unusable in the official realm? So you still get loot rewards for each mission and mods can change how/what you get, but this loot can’t be used when/if you switch back to the official realm.
I for one cannot wait for a mod to speed up rerolling crap - e.g. pay 20 green dust to get the exact properties you want so you can try out a different build, instead of sitting there for literally 10 minutes clicking the same button over and over and over again while your mates try to push you into the portal.
At the end of the day, as everyone keeps saying, this is a co-op game, not PVE. Why disable half the game for people who want to enjoy it their own way instead of the Fatshark Approved™ way?
There is now way to make mods compatible with loot. I don’t think, that even a white list of mods can help with that, because mod developers could potentially hide different abuses in the code. Thus, having loot on modded games will completely devalue the loot system, including cosmetics, completely changing the game and removing the point for playing it for a lot of people.
Fatshark have said that they hope to whitelist not only quality of life mods, like showing damage numbers, but also popular mods that fundamentally change the game, like higher difficulty game modes (e.g. Deathwish). They even stated that they’d like to work with the authors of “game mode” mods to provide loot/rewards that are balanced around the difficulty of these new modes. So, lots of potential there.
I’m not sure what the server-side loot system looks like, but I suspect it’s not feasible for Fatshark to rework it such that they store 2 sets of loot data (official vs modded) for every account. Sounds like a mess and a headache to me.
But on the bright side, if you want to give yourself every item in the game each time you load in, I’m fairly certain you can just do that with a mod.
Unless Fat Shark changed their minds, this is how they intend to deal with mods:
"A barricade against cheats and trolls
Modding Vermintide 2 won’t be a complete free-for-all, of course. Some players will want to hog-wild while others would rather stick with the vanilla game. “To cater to both these things we will be splitting the game into two realms,” Hagblom says, “the official realm and the modded realm. So if a player is playing in the official realm, they will be able to know that everybody else playing are playing legitimately. Though, since we’ve had a lot of mods for Vermintide 1 with QoL improvements, more advanced UIs and the like we still want this to remain without forcing these players to play in the wild west of the modded realm. To solve this we will allow mod creators to apply to get their mods vetted for ‘sanctioned’ status. We will then go through the mod, make sure it doesn’t contain any cheats or unfair advantages and if everything checks out, clear it to be played even in the official realm.”
As Grimalackt says, “Those who want to create absolutely ridiculous mods will now also be able to share them more openly, since there will be an ‘untrusted’ realm with separate matchmaking where everything is permitted, at the cost of loot not carrying over to the trusted realm.” "
That’s not necessary, just add a “trusted” column to their loot database.
Even if they had to have two separate database for some obscure reason, that’s like less than a day’s work to set up.
I suspect the real issue would be that all loot might be determined server-side, meaning mods won’t even be able to modify/spawn/reward items.
That’s all it takes really - I’m perfectly fine with loot not carrying over, that’s great. The issue is if loot is disabled entirely.
That’s great. My only concern - how are they going to find time for that. Don’t wanna be a pessimist, but they can’t keep up with all the patching, fixing and new content already. So who’s gonna be checking all the mods for cheats, considering this is a serious job, and mods also get constantly patched - it’s not like you can examine them once and forget about them.
I’m sure Robin (dev dedicated to mod support) has thought through the logistics of sanctioning (including how updates to a Workshop item would affect sanctioned status), and I don’t doubt his ability or drive to handle this. It won’t be instant, and it won’t be a perfect process. But all the mods I’ve reviewed code for are pretty small, and the mod community for VT1/2 is also quite small, so I don’t think this is going to be any kind of issue.
Sure, because this whole game is so “thought through” and has no design flaws, there is no doubt there is gonna be no problems with whitelisted mods.
Idk if there is actually going to be problems, idk if there isn’t, but judging by empirical experience, it’s very likely that something will go wrong yet again. I hope it doesn’t, but I just can not be hyped up about mods, because FS gave so many false promises and false hopes recently, that there is no more trust left for them.
Your passion for this game is clear, and your contributions to this and other discussions cannot be over-appreciated! You keep us all grounded. Keep up the great work!
Once we get mods the vast majority of players will just play in the modded realm. To hell with the “official” realm. Casuals will have left by then if they haven’t already and mods will allow people who actually know the game and know legend difficulty to balance the game properly.
I don’t understand this… The loot is supposedly so trivial it can be gated behind a system where a noob with 30min of play time can potentially get something a vet with 1000 hours doesn’t have… But somehow it’s also so critical and important they can’t have mods associated with it? Wtf?
The workshop should be going live in the next couple of weeks. Out of the gate, I suspect many (but certainly not most) players will jump over there to check out stuff like damage numbers or play around in 3rd person mode. But once the core batch of QOL mods gets whitelisted I’d bet the majority of players will still be playing on official…especially with the new quest system and additional cosmetics coming in the next patch.
Personally speaking, I expect myself and my group of players to be bouncing between the two realms but spending most of our time getting that official loot.
If that’s sarcasm, that’s a good one, can’t even be mad. If not, and I think it is not, then thanks. Though I don’t think I deserve it yet. I’ve been very pessimistic and somewhat biased against FS. Only lately I stopped caring to the point, where I try focusing purely on objective things.
Let’s just hope FS deal with their problems, and finally polish this gem, so we could truly enjoy it.
Honestly, if there’s no loot I’ll either stick with vanilla or just wait til mods are sanctioned for loot in the core game. This news is disappointing.
This isn’t news, it isn’t at all surprising, and frankly it’s the best solution for not trivializing loot (and the investment it takes to get loot).
The sanctioning system means mods will come to the official realm. The “anything goes” mod realm should still allow you to (temporarily) give yourself every weapon and play around with them. What exactly is the issue? Mods aren’t going to kill this game.
They’re not going to kill the game, but they aren’t coming in a form anybody’s going to want. Very few people are going to bounce back and forth to play Skippy the Bear’s Difficulty 2.0 mod or Mr. Karl’s Crazy Funland should the level editor make it in and get nothing for it in this game. Not with the current drop rates, and not when we’re years out from getting balance just right. Too many problems to list in this conversation on that front anyway.
I get that Fatshark has to cater to 100x more people than the Cult-V1 fandom and that this absurd notion of “trivializing loot” has to be said, but EAC was an underhanded addition and modding interest in communities I oversee dipped when we found out about the realm split and progression shutdown.
Aside from that, the idea for sanctioning modders… Well, that’s a pretty sad issue too considering Grimalackt is an ethically bankrupt thief who stole the original mod Framework and got interviewed for this game’s mod support as if he were an authority.
Well, speak for yourself (like I’m about to), but I’m very much looking forward to playing with whitelisted/sanctioned mods like damage numbers. And I’m looking forward to trying out unsanctioned mods that change the game in big ways (which don’t currently exist but hopefully will soon). I know my group of friends are in the same boat.
As I understand it, the level editor won’t be available for some time, but I’ll absolutely be down for playing new mods (levels or mutators) with no loot so long as they’re…y’know…fun! If some hats or the promise of a perfectly-rolled red is what’s keeping someone from extending their enjoyment of the game via a mod, I reckon the mod isn’t very good.
So do you, and the people you intend to play with, care about loot or not? I mean, it’s pretty much useless in VT2 once you’ve hit the level/power cap. Reds are something, but you can get the equivalent oranges with enough dust (which is it’s whole own thing, I know). So if you DO care, you can bounce between fun “wild west” mods and the more vanilla experience with Quality Of Life mods. And if you DON’T care about loot, you can just give yourself every item in the game via a mod (while the mod is active and you’re in the modded realm).
Well that’s a real shame, but many of modders for VT1 (who were responsible for many of the popular QoL mods and mutators) seem to be pretty invested in VT2 modding and have been working right alongside Robin (FS dev) to build tools and a community around modding. EAC didn’t seem to slow that down, and I have high hopes for the future of the modding community.
Individual mods are sanctioned, not modders.
Grimlackt is one of the aforementioned group of modders who are working alongside Robin. That group also includes many of the modders that you seem to think Grimlackt “stole” from. I don’t know what your beef is, but it doesn’t seem to be shared by the modders who contributed work that Grimlackt combined into the QoL modpack for VT1.