The Modded Realm is worthless - a rant, and a solution

Let me start by clarifying that I love this game. The only reason I may come across as a whiney b**** who hates fatshark is because I actually love them and I really really want this game to be the best it can be.

This game has such potential, but the developers repeatedly make bad decisions (imo) and promise amazing features that end up being implemented in a disappointing way.

One of such features is modding.

TDLR: Modded Realm has no loot or progression of any kind.

Vermintide 1 modding was the wild west. Anyone could do anything, and there was nothing to stop you from enjoying the game in your own way, whether that be inventing new challenge ideas like 3-grim runs with effectively 1hp and no respawns, or just spawning in all the hats and reds for yourself. If you saw a mod that changed the game or loot system in a way that might give you a slight advantage (e.g. healthbars on storm vermin, or locking some of the weapon traits when rerolling to help you get what you wanted quicker), you could make your own judgement call on whether or not that was fair for you.

Sure, it was possible to cheat, but in my ~500 hours I encountered only one “cheater”. He spawned in a bunch of speed potions and went rocketing around the map for a while before getting downed by an assassin and disconnecting. The rest of my 499h 50m was spent having the time of my life, the way that I wanted to play.

Cue Vermintide 2 announcement, and the promise of mod support.

We hear of this separation between official and Modded Realm, to protect new-comers and those who want the vanilla experience. Sure, this sounds like a smart idea, but my friends and I all agree we’ll probably live on the Modded Realm anyway.

Natually, we wait patiently for months before mod support is added, only to realise that the Modded Realm is a deserted and worthless wasteland.

See for yourself. Launch in the Modded Realm, open up the lobby browser and set the region to World. If you’re lucky, you might find one or two lobbies, which are probably just modders testing their latest code, or players who can’t get past EAC for some reason or another.

Why?

  • No loot. I don’t play for loot, but clutching your heart out for 20 minutes and getting nothing for it is still sad.
  • No acheivements/challenges - Two of the major reasons why I would play VT1 were the daily contracts and the steam acheivements. My new friends and I would log on every night and have a reason to play and a goal to complete. Often this led to fancy new weapons that we would likely never get from RNG drops, or simply absurd fun from achievement hunting.
  • No loot on Modded Realm means mod developers have a very hard time developing and testing mods that affect loot. Whether this be just speeding up rerolling or disallowing duplicate reds until you have a full set - ignoring the fact that most of these, although probably fair and widely requested, would not be sanctioned.
  • No players - the above three issues create the final most important issue to compound the problem: no one to play with. This is a co-op game, and if no one wants to play on the Modded Realm with you, you’re just going to stick to the Official Realm.

The whole purpose of modding is to allow players to decide how they want to play, extend the possible game modes, increase the challenge and improve the user experience/quality of life. However, with the Modded Realm being so brutally handicapped that nobody even uses it, some may ask what is even the point?

Every time I see a sweet new mod pop up, I simultaneously think “damn that’s awesome”, and “it probably won’t be sanctioned so I’ll never get to use it” :’(

Sure, there are some mods being sanctioned now, but they are all only visual tweaks, and even then not all of them make it. Fatshark gets to decide how we have our fun. Sure it’s their game, but remember that the purpose of modding is to give users a way to have their own fun. I would even go as far as to say that sanctioned mods aren’t really mods at all, but fixes and features that FS should have implemented themselves or add to the game as standard.

FS have repeatedly suggested that in future it will be possible for mods to add new maps and vastly different game modes (e.g. porting VT1 maps, last stand, or PVP). But with the current system, almost no one will play those because they will most certainly not be sanctioned

Ok, enough bitching, I hope we’re on the same page now.

The Real Problems

What I’ve ranted about above comes from issues with the current solution to a number of problems. Clearly the current solution is not a good one, but in order to come up with a better one, we must first describe the original problems that we’re trying to solve.

Splitting the community into two Realms is not ideal, but for the sake of not making this essay into a 1000 page novel (and because realistically FS aren’t going to throw away all of their hard work) let’s assume we’ll still have an Official Realm with mod sanctioning, and a Modded Realm where anything goes.

Problem 1: With mods, players can just spawn in all the weapons, skins, hats and frames that they want.

In my opinion, this isn’t even a problem at all. Most of the playerbase are actually playing this game because they want to play it, not because they want to own all the junk. They want to earn the rewards.

Does it really matter to you that someone else got all the loot unfairly? You probably know they got it unfairly because they boast about it. Or, they hide the fact that they got it unfairly and pretend to have earned it to impress you, which is just sad.

Even so, it doesn’t really affect your gameplay.

Problem #2: What about cheaters ruining the games of others?

As I said, I haven’t had much experience with this issue, so take this with a grain of salt.

Firstly, this isn’t so different from your standard griefers who might throw away grims at the end of a map, or intentionally kill you for the lols. In fact, the people who already do this will likely be the ones using the cheats.

Secondly, cheaters only cheat because they are bored of the vanilla experience, and will always stop playing after a short while.

Thirdly, it’s not hard to have another mod that detects cheaters and kicks them for you.

Fourthly, if they’re not ruining the games of others and just playing on their own or with their own group of friends, does it actually matter that they’re cheating if it doesn’t affect you?

Mods that are cheats can potentially use a separate matchmaking pool to prevent their games from showing up in the lobby browser or matching in quickplay for non-cheaters.

If you really care about avoiding cheaters, you can still use the Official Realm, or only play with friends.

Problem #3: Mods that work with loot might abuse fatshark’s servers.

Mods might send a huge number of (potentially invalid/unsupported) requests to their servers which may impact the stability of the game for all players, even on the Official Realm, and create more work and costs for fatshark.

This was an actual problem in VT1 (iirc), and I assume a significant reason why there is currently no loot creation or modification of any kind allowed in the Modded Realm.

The solution.

Local loot, and separate progression.

It’s that simple.

Let all loot gained in the Modded Realm be stored locally on your own computer (not on some server), so that the potential server issues are negated, and loot gained in the Modded Realm does not carry over to the Official Realm.

For experience (character levels), store the total experience gained in each Realm separately, but add them together in the Modded Realm so that experience gained in Official Realm carries over to Modded Realm, but not the other way around.

Challenges and quests can be tracked separately for Modded Realm too, including the rewards you get from completing them.

I think this is a decent solution (outside of merging the realms and using a better matchmaking system instead), which will greatly extend the longevity of Vermintide and allow us all to have even more fun with it.

I can’t see how this could be a bad thing, or why it wasn’t designed like this from the start.

Maybe I’m missing something.

5 Likes

So what you want goes and ignore those people who want Vanilla? Also the cheaters in vT1 weren’t all so obvious. There were a few more subtle cheats coded into the UI/QoL mods that gave people advantages.

Having loot on the Modded Realm is simply pointless, as people will just mod into the game the ability to have everything. Earning loot/frames/skins in such an environment is absolutely laughable because - by it’s very nature - the modded realm will have lots of mods that just unlock everything for everyone.

So,
Tracking challenges and quests -pointless in the modded realm - get a modder to give you instant complete quests.
Experience levels - pointless in the modded realm - get a modder to give you max exp.
Gaining loot = pointless in the modded realm - get a modder to unlock everything for everyone, and to alter the loot on either realm would mean FS giving people access to their “back end” (oo err) which is something you really don’t want to happen.

The moment you enable loot in the modded realm it will become completely overwhelmed with people who have everything, and will also dilute the experience in the official realm because people will have just got it all in modded realm and CBA to actually earn it in the official realm.

And the solution that people should just “Play offline or only play with friends” is beginning to really wind me up. How dare you tell me how to play a game I’ve paid for? How dare you exclude me from playing online simply to suit your own personal idea of what should happen with mods? It is spectacular arrogance to suggest that people who use mods should get their own way over and above those who don’t. In fact, the developers have provided an entire realm for you to go and play mods on so…

The fact that it’s deserted might suggest that the people who actually use mods and are prepared to put up with exploits/hacks/ and unlimited hats etc are a relatively tiny proportion of the VT2 gaming population. If I’m wrong then surely the modded realm would be full of people enjoying mods and the official realm would be empty.

EARNING loot is what people are playing for, in fact the majority of complaint threads are about the fact that earning the loot is too RNG to reward their efforts, and duplication of rewards is frustrating. People want to put in effort and get rewarded for it.

Of course Fatshark gets to decide how we have our fun - they designed the effing thing. I mean, Really?

1 Like

I don’t think you read very much of my post, I addressed all of the issues you mentioned already.

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I read the whole thing.You didn’t address the issues, you either dismissed them as you don’t consider them important to you(Problem 1) or ignored the impact on people who simply don’t want mods and would like to play on a level playing field - as you aren’t too bothered about other people’s enjoyment (problem 2).

In fact in talking about Problem 3 you have completely validated what I’ve said about mods wrecking the system back end.

By giving the modded realm loot progression will be no longer needed. People will just enable whatever they like and play - which is possible now in the modded realm without loot progression.

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People who don’t want mods can still play on official realm.

mods wrecking the system back end

“Local loot” means it’s stored on your own computer and has nothing to do with fatshark’s backend, as I mentioned already.

By giving the modded realm loot progression will be no longer needed. People will just enable whatever they like and play - which is possible now in the modded realm without loot progression.

What about players who want loot progression and fair mods? I for one don’t want to spawn all the loot for myself, I want to earn it. Same for the challenges. But I also want to play with damage numbers, health bars, no duplicate reds, mutators, ping numbers, balance tweaks and bug fixes.

1 Like

you need to get off your high horse and make up your mind, do you want all mods and people that enjoy them to “shove off” to the modded realm? which would require loot enabled on the modded realm or do you want everyone to play the official realm with mods because theirs no loot on the modded realm
because those are your options

also no, everyone won’t just “mod into the game the ability to have everything”, the aim of most mods and people that enjoy them is to improve the mechanics of the game or make it more challenging,
yes there might be a few outliers that would try to get loot without putting in the effort but would that really make a difference to you?

3 Likes

I for one don’t want to spawn all the loot for myself, I want to earn it. Same for the challenges. But I also want to play with damage numbers, health bars, no duplicate reds, mutators, ping numbers, balance tweaks and bug fixes.

Once those things have met the requirements to be sanctioned, they’ll appear in the official realm, or the duplicate red issues will be sorted in an official patch - along with bugs and balance. It seems like what you are asking for is already the system that’s in place.

@madminer95 I’ve made it quite clear in older posts that I want the official realm to be completely free of mods.It’s not going to happen. I get it.

Although there is an entire realm for modders and mod users, somehow that’s not enough.
The current system of moving mods into the official realm,(although I don’t like it) appears to work but that isn’t enough.
Mod users want progression in the modded realm now.

I think that Fatshark is currently on the right way regarding mods just very slow.

3 Likes

that’s a lot of words to say “let me hack in the weapons i want!”. is it you’re hoping nobody will remember that by the end or are you actually thinking you have an argument in there somehow?

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“i want to play with mods” =/= “i want to hack and cheat”

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What we know through modern psychology and behavioural economics, that is very likely what is going to happen, though, even with people claiming they won’t. Everyone will eventually, just a matter of time. I’d rather have no mods at all in the official realm, also, but then again, there are so many things available already that should be in the game in the first place that I just think of it as… well, lazyness on FS’s part.

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Sad that once you remove the korea grind tier loot system this game seemingly has absolutely nothing to offer.
Contrary to what people always try to sell in their posts.
Cut the gambling substitute and even improved gameplay wont make people bother logging in.

I think this is a very good and important point: This whole “no loot in the modded realm” fiasco wouldn’t exist at all if red items and cosmetics had ANY kind of accomplishment behind them. Reds only show your dedication to the grind and do not reflect skill-based achievement much.

5 Likes

I agree with you, but V1’s reds were also a dedication to the grind. You just had different methods of obtaining them (random roll after the map, with no chance of getting any loot if game failed, OR grind the keys for the lootboard).

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