Scoreboard is a mod, also the game may not provide enough positive reinforcement to play like this, but it provides plenty of negative. Why do you think the suicidal knife zealot meme even became a thing? Every so often I still meet people that drop out of the lobby if they see a knife wielding zealot.
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I think the issue is a bit more complicated since depending on weapon selection what the character is “good at” can change a bit.
I see Vet as “Anti-Elite/Special” more than “Anti-shooter”.
If Vet runs K12 he can sit back and shoot away at shooters all day, or take out that few far away ones.
If Vet runs Braced he can run in and tank shooter groups (while ult is up), and also deal heavy horde damage, but will have trouble with “hiding enemies” or far away targets.
If Vet runs Laspistol it’s absolute tank mode against shooter groups and can deal with broken-up groups, but can’t deal with certain specials as efficiently.
There are a lot more ups and downs based on weapons and each game is very different based on the character’s loadout, and it goes for other classes too. This is of course based on “good players” who know what they are doing and not players who use their kit… Incorrectly.
I usually go heavily into what I’m good at, and let others take on roles that they are good at.
For example, if I’m running plasma and there is a TH Zealot/good Ogryn I don’t even shoot most mutants since Ogryn can box it and Zealot can one-tap with Hammer, and I want the Zealot to run in and deal with the shooter while I suppress them, take out the gunners and make sure to cover him from any specials or elites going in his direction.
I kinda agree with @Reginald here. The answer to this problem is making the game more difficult.
When specialist gauntlet was first introduced (and many full teams even now) or when the game was new and I played t5 people played very specialized roles and lean heavily into what they are good at, and more importantly, helped others to deal with stuff they are bad at. Switching up only when it’s safe to do or when there is no other option.
There is no better feeling than when everyone knows his place in the setup and you can rely on them doing what’s important in their role. This can only be realistically achieved when the game is difficult enough to force everyone to work together.
Currently, all classes offer loadout where you can survive too easily and deal with all threats over time. Auto pistol Vet, Trauma psyker, Caxe Zealot, and what I think is the most broken: BB + Ripper Ogryn. Since players can more or less survive with little input from teammates in pugs generally good players tend to go “solo” offering minimal help to others making them abysmal teammates, concentrating on their own survival above all else and not taking risks at all to save a teammate (since they don’t need them, they will mostly do good on their own).
For all the new things introduced in DT like disabling stam regen on dodge so you can’t just dodge-dance infinity to Coherency the game is just too easy and won’t force you to take on your role properly.
PS: In VT2 when the whole team died and the tank/control was left standing with full health (like Ironbreaker Bardin) it was usually the tank/control’s fault and not the other players. This goes for DT too. (although I do know there are some players that are just bad and you can’t keep them alive no matter what)
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Your post made me think about the team composition, I mean that the game should or should not be based on you team composition.
Because if you random team is Ogrins with Kickbacks and Knives of course you would just die if there is an open space with shooters. Well, on the other hand if game will be based on your team comp, it’ll make team compositing pretty much meaningless and therefore make game easier.
But it is indeed annoying that there are one billion rangers when your team is melee based, and it is funny that for ranged based team there’s no difference.
And you are right, it would be cool if it could be tested, for example some open testing fields with couple of versions of balance changes that would be separate from the main game so people could actually make a choice if it is a good change or not so
Yes, you are right that as Ogrin you need to give a Veteran breathin space so he could do other things, such as killing shooters.
And I have to agree that this is indeed a skill issue and miscommunication
anyone who asks for nerfs to the enemies are just strait up bad at the game. this game has seen multiple nerfs to multiple enemies and none of them were needed but you know they have to cater to the bad players like you who cant handle the enemies in this already too easy game.
the only good nerfs this game has seen were the nerfs to the player weapons flamer and power sword because those changes made the game harder and those are good changes but im sure you also complained about those changes too because poor little lexa cant handle the enemies in this game.
@Headhunter
Being conscious about what your team is doing is a good thing, and I think you are right about what are you doing
@Smilingbob
I like your spirit, and I will tell you that is exactly what I want to do when playing with other people, helping them.
@Nish
The weapon choice is indeed important to the role you are taking in the team.
I will not talk about how to fix difficulty problem here, but I’ll say that everything is a bit more complicated due to different opinions thrown around, there are many people who say that the game is easy and many who say that shooters are annoying(but not as many as others) and addressing either problems will displease another group and make the problem worse.
And about BB+Ripper, I don’t think that this loadout is as good as BB+Gorgonum, and I actually don’t think it’s broken, but I am the Ogryn player so my opinion is heavily biased, I pretty much don’t play anyone else. Also, I have to admit, that this is pretty much the only loudout that is fun for me.
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Please, it’s not a difficulty topic, and I will ask you and everybody else not to be rude to others
Yup, you got me.
Here is where I explicitly ask for buffs to all weapons because this game is so difficult for me:
Here’s me complaining more about those nerfs:
and here is where I complete deny that PS is OP:
And when I ask:
I am actually calling for buffs, not nerfs if you can believe it.
Or here where I suggest that the flamer needs super buffs because I die in this game alot:
Now look at this clown and these calls for buffing the PS:
I have emotions, and I am not ashamed to cry about any potential nerfs to my OP weapons:
Jesus, is this me after the nerfs? Pure power sword copium by me here:
You won’t believe what my actual, completely non-sarcastic suggestion for re-balancing the PS was:
Guess you were right: I’m a crybaby who wants to buff everything because this PvE game is too difficult for me.
PS: I suggest looking into those posts’ threads for context if it’s confusing.
all of this is meaningless when your here on this post complaining shooters need a nerf. you can spout a bunch of what you said previously but it still doesnt change the fact you were just here complaining about shooters. if you actually wanted a challenging game you wouldnt be here asking for shooter nerfs and i quote
you ruined all your past arguments that your interested in challenging gameplay with just those 2 words
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Nah, they’re right. Unmodded damnation is a cakewalk, barring really unlucky enemy spawns. (I say this with the full uinderstanding that I abuse the **** out of braced autoguns)
if you’re having trouble with ranged enemies as a melee focused class, my advice is to scope out the area before you move into it. If you’re trying to engage a big ball of enemies in melee, out in the open, while there’s a ton of shooters shooting at you, that’s almost always a situation you could’ve avoided with a little patience and planning.
Of course, you have to do that quickly, because if your ranged classes set everything off before you’re in position, you can get stuck at the back with them pretty easily, or worse, get shredded while you’re on the way to where you want to be.
For ranged-focused classes like Vet, this is something you can just passively do thanks to your natural position being further away from enemies. For melee classes, it’s often something you have to specifically include in your cycle, since you naturally want to be closer to enemies and thus have less visibility of the overall arena.
I remember seeing ogryns in heresy just go full ungabunga and blind charge at a ball of enemies out into the open, then cry about ranged teammates not supporting them when they get shredded by the gunners off to the side they ignored. That sort of thing doesn’t happen so often in damnation, which, incidentally, is usually why damnation is so much easier than heresy.
They’re not really presenting their argument very well, but I think what they’re actually saying is that they prefer that in-your-face, constantly-pushing-forward melee style that VT specialises in, which the power of ranged enemies in DT currently limits. They don’t necessarily want it to be easier, they want the balance of ranged/melee combat to lean more towards melee.
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what i dont understand is why ranged has to be nerfed to buff melee. they should just buff melee stuff and keep ranged the same
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People use specific suggestions to indirectly say what it is they actually want.
It’s usually best to set the specific suggestions to the side, since those usually just generate argument without addressing the true message.
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FURTHER DEMANDS FOR DOWNGRADE OF OMNISSIAH HOLY TOOLS BY THE UNORDAINED IS TECH-HERESY AND AN ABOMINATION IN THE PHOTORECEPTORS OF THE OMNISSIAH.
“Wheresoever the blasphemer writes, obliterate.” - Epigraphs Macrologica, psalm 105
You’ve been warned.
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Nah, everyone can understand simple arguments.
Haiboku is just a troll.
Like, a very textbook example.
They should bring T6 difficulty and lock it behind a paywal (T6 rewards should be the same as for T5). Best decision they made in V2, so there will be no filthy casul tourists, only players who want challenge. Braindead players on Cata were filtered out pretty fast, no additional rewards - no reason to be carried for them. New unexpirienced players? Sure, but it’s not a problem.
Such a great idea to have shooters focus people for playing a specific class…
The class that has to carefully aim with most guns, which does not work when getthing shot and flinched/suppressed…
Your „solution“ would result in the exact opposite of what you are trying to accomplish.
When veteran players do not focus ranged units, it is not because they do not need to worry about them. It is more likely because they are not very good players.
Just like ogryn and zealot players who complain about a bunch of things (like shooters) that are simply a skill issue and could be solved by playing on an adequate difficulty and getting better at the game.
Cat
Meow
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I am not sure if the paywall is, what kept most suckers out of cata. It certainly might be.
Without introducing a paywall, this could potentially be solved by having the same ressource reward for heresy and damnation.
The amount of ressources scattered throughout the mission could be displayed next in the mission selection screen, so that suckers who just want to leech for a more efficient farm, would stay out of damnation.
Players who are not good enough for damnation, would not really have an incentive to play on that difficulty.
Good players who want to farm a bit more efficiently, could play heresy instead of damnation.
Damnation remains for those who simply want more of a challenge.
The success rate and gameplay quality of both heresy and damnation lobbies would probably be better because of it.
I kinda expected this thread to be dead by the time I got back to it. But you seem to be somewhat upset so allow me to try and rectify a few misunderstandings here. I am not a braggard claiming I’m so good at the video game. I am representing the position of a large number of players who have been asking for harder difficulty modes and enjoy the game as it is. I very precisely and intentionally chose one change out of your list of changes and said “not this one”.
No. Here is the quote, which is what I responded to.
You see? My original post was targeted specifically at a suggestion you made that I outright oppose, on its face. And the reason for this is because it changes the difficulty and character of the game.
What I did here, and what you took offense at for some reason, was say that spawning less shooters and/or making them less scattered would be to make the game easier and that I opposed that suggestion. You want to make maulers and crushers more dangerous? Fine! Game is too easy as it is. That’s not just my opinion but many player’s opinions. There are people who regularly just don’t play because the game difficulty is too low and the mission board won’t spawn something fun. But shooters are in a good place right now. I am fully aware that the thread is about some players not wanting to fulfill their role and I addressed that in a separate post.
And for that matter this is a very key point about Darktide in the first place. This game is not a role based game. It is a strengths based game. Any class can fulfil any roll. But some classes are better at it than others. This means any class can choose to go off meta at any time and may well need to as the game is a hybrid combat game. They may bring a suboptimal loadout that cannot deal with XYZ. And frankly that is healthier for the game than jamming people into neo-hero shooters where everyone has to do their specific thing or the game is lost. This game involves, most commonly, queuing with random people who have different tastes and skill levels. Forcing people to play a certain way because its their role is actually kind of bad game design. Its way more fun, in my view, to let the Veteran run around with a kantrael shotgun and power sword if he wants to. Unless I’m running a premade 4 stack then “roles” are just presumably out. I don’t even think about it anymore. I bring equipment that will see me through any situation OR I simply plan to suffer in some places and have to work really hard to get around them. I do not rely on my team to make up those gaps just because I chose the wrong gear. If they choose to do so then that’s great for me and the mission will run that much smoother.
There’s plenty of punishments in place for no one on the team taking the right toolkit for some situations and frankly the only problem here is there’s no weapon view in the pre-game lobby so you can make sure the bases are covered.
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