or, you can also use it to reanimate your teammates with a +50% (+20% leaves noone behind and 3 x +10% revive ally) bonus… this is just one of the possibilities of the veteran with stealth.
All the skill trees suck as designed, but Veteran’s is unironically the best among the 4 classes. I can only imagine getting Confirmed Kill on Psyker, Zealot, or Ogryn, especially for 2 points.
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Is getting 10% Toughness and an additional 20% over 10s on specifically Elite and Specialist kills is wildly more powerful than say, replenishing 2.5% toughness for every 10% Peril generated and then 5% toughness for every 10% peril quelled for 2pts as a Psyker? Another quirck with Confirmed Kill is that it’s value also varies inversely with the level of difficulty you’re playing.
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Yes, Confirmed Kill is the most overpowered toughness regeneration skill in the game, and it’s not close. It stacks on itself, making you effectively immortal in the situations where you actually need toughness, and it does it with no conditional action or modifier attached. As you said, this scales far, far better the harder the game becomes, unlike all other class toughness regeneration mechanics.
Psyker toughness from peril inherently sucks and is mandatory because you have to quell to not die; this means 35% of your time is you doing literally nothing (quelling), while being unable to defend yourself. Imagine playing Veteran and having a talent that reads, “Replenish 2.5% toughness per 20% ammo reloaded per magazine spent,” and then having no other means to gain toughness. Would that make you stronger or weaker?
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absolute garbage take, reality is the exact other way around, Vet has massive thougness regen deficiencies when his voice of command is in cooldown while psyker swim in thougness from doing anything, gaining peril, loosing peril, scoring crits, can basically be tankier than an Ogryn for free
the reality of facts is that you only need thougness regen abilities when you got hit, and you need to fill your thougness bar back, meaning most of the thougness you get by those abilities goes wasted
Vet is by far the most inefficent class at filling that bar back when he is most vulnerable, this is why he benefit so much by abilities like Voice of Command and Infiltrate in the first place
lets start from the Worst
the absolute worst perk in the game, getting value from this requires you the highest level of gymnastic either if you farm stacks or spam tags you end up with a handful of flies on your hands
praised by your average youtuber this perk works in like 1 or 2 instances of a full game, you can’t really get value from this if even a single melee mob is anyway near you cause it requires a Ranged Headshot Kill to proc, maybe it has a place for those brauto on horde guys but i look down upon those anyways, this can occasionally proc in ranged combats but its not much usefull since you are already in a good spot as a veteran engaging in range combat, there would be plenty of gunners and snipers to proc your Confirmed Kill so its redundant
this one is whatever, its handy when you get separated from your team mate but it doesn’t happen every mission
out for blood is decent i guess but its too expensive to put in a build in the best occasions, still you need to kill many enemies to get value off it, and usually when you are out of thougness you can’t always start killing sprees
Confiremd Kill, a shadow of it former self, that 10% you get after patch 15 Vet nerf is null, its only good for its 20% thougness over 10s which is also super slow if its just 1 stack of it, after veteran thougness nerf espeically you just don’t feel it, you get 0 rewards from killing a special or elite now, and then again, if you are in a killing spree of elites and specials you hardly get any value off your clutch regen abilities cause you are in a vantage position already
Voice of Command is what fill your thougness bar for the 99% of any runs, all the rest are wasted perk points
No its not its just average, Psyker and Ogryn have much better perks for that, and they get to decide when they want to fill their bar which is the most important thing
man if you struggle with psyker just go for this
its literally a stronger version of Confirmed Kill
oh and i forgot this
Out for Blood 2.0
and you don’t need to pay tax nodes to get them, because psyker talent tree got half the blue talents vet has
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You can use it to reanimate teammate (singular) because it ends after, yeah. Or you can shout, toss a grenade and revive a teammate that gains gold toughness after you revive them. This is one of the many would be advantages of stealth covered by player knowledge. It even works on chaos spawn, provided you recently dodged his grab.
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*looks up from autogun sights* Hey everyone, this guy’s not able to land his headshots! what a f-*downed by mauler overhead while laughing*
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While it does stack with itself and scales with difficulty, I’ve never found a situation where I could be functionally immortal for more than a few brief moments, more typically I find I kill a string of specialists or elites together and then have a drought of Confirmed Kill targets for a time.
You can quell often when taking moments you’d be doing other stuff anyway, and there are other options such as the Transfer Perils Blessing aside from just sitting there manually Quelling. Quelling from near 100% to practically 0% after blapping a group of Poxwalkers with a Voidstrike blast at head height is magnificent. Between the two talents, just about everything you do is generating Toughness. Coupled with Warp Siphon’s Essence Harvest and/or Soulstealer, a Psyker can really generate a lot of toughness doing literally nothing or just mowing muppets, a Veteran needs a constant stream of Elites/Specialists.
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Iron Will should be on top , just like confirmed kill or exhilarating take down, so players can choose wich one to take or just take all 3.
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No, you’re just seeing the real Ralendil. As long as HE is, or at least thinks he is, on top in the current mess all is well. And anything that might upset his place is to be prevented lest it batter his fragile ego.
Humans are unfortunately hardwired to be far more scared of losing anything they have than to see what they might gain. Some things however take that to an extreme.
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At least, as I said, he is entirely free to voice his opinion… and as I said, I can also voice mine. At the end, this is Fatshark decision.
And I have always said that, when I will be tired of the game, I would change. If the game goes in a state I don’t like, there are lot of other games.
Don’t think I take personally things. There is only one time where I can start to feel angry, this is when someone start to be insulting (there’s one member with a name that starts with a F that IO consider often rude and insulting).
I don’t think I have insulted him… I have even said he can ask to change things to veteran…
And about what I use… well as I tend to change really often or I get bored… something you would change today, will impact me for sure sooner or later.
By the way, what is funny is how several consider the game too easy and how a significant part, at same time, ask for increased player power…
Psh, thats insane, dude.
I’ve not been asking for increased power. Aint no one said “buff my damages”. No. We ask for better ease of movement through the tree to give us more varied builds. We ask for ‘more interesting talents’, instead of the boring poop we got.
But sure, lets pretend everyone is stupid and weak compared to you, not “tough enough” to play with the real kids huh? Nah man, you’re just looking at this whole damn situation wrong. I want cool skills in my tree, and I want a fairly accessible tree in terms of buids.
Simples.
We can keep the difficulty, and we can have better class design. 
Okay, so let me put it this way actually. You obviously spent as much time in the Vet tree as I have by now. Look at this right?
Deadshot, in the left tree. Low middle.
Duck and Dive, in the right tree. Low middle.
Invigorated, in the right tree. Very End…
Its the layout! It drives me mad! I can’t build around something like: Using stamina to make crit headshots, then regaining stamina by engaging in melee, nope. Because if I do, welp, there goes every other essential piece of Veteran kit. Because the tree was built in a hurry, with ZERO understanding of the class.
Honest truth: I want the people in charge the class design to spend some time thinking about what each class is. Then take a good few months refining the talents, working on the theory and purpose of each. Then finally, with much aplomb, drop us a proper class rework that blows our tiny monkey minds…
Or I’d take a slightly improved layout? 
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You want to be able to choose too many good things without wasting the points.
It would make veteran even more stronger, and the class is already pretty strong.
Tbh I don’t feel any restriction with the veteran tree. And I play this class 40% of my time.
You can build crit build with stamina, did it with the kantrael shotgun with man stopper blessing. And it works great.
So, in fact, you want to buff veteran. I still think that having choices, that will give you strengths and so also weakness, is a good thing.
I always use same bottom as i stated earlier.
And tbh, every example you have given me, I did it. But sure, i could not choose all good talents and had to accept that I could not pick this talent or this other.
Honest truth… I am tired to see them reworking entirely the game for too few changes and no additional content.
I don’t know if you were happy with the vet changes, but in my opinion this has been the 2 worst moves (keystone intro and change on talent tree after that) they did.
Reworking again and again the game is a terrible choice. Balancing is good, changing everything to break the balance, create new problems is not a good move… Especially when it does not provide any gameplay addition.
And this game lacks content… Missions, new archetype, new weapons, weapon customization, for the drip equivalent etc.
Btw, I understand that we have different points of view. This does not mean I am right, nor that you are.
This is just points of view, and yours is not worse or better than mine.
Discussion is a good thing… Personally i tend to think that there are talents totally useless. These talents should be corrected / buffed or changed.
And there are also talents that need to be nerfed…
This is more important than reworking entirely the talent tree. But, again, just an opinion.
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Just sharing my views too. No hard feelings at all. You’re alright by me, Ralendil 
Okay so I wanna get this straight though. I hard disagree with this:
No, they rushed the game out. They weren’t reworking, they were finishing the classes. You’re missing the key fact here, the game has been building around us.
Yes, its priority, and management. Let me redirect you to my statement:
See, the key here is managing your time well, spending your resources wisely. The enjoyment of classes is key. But so is keeping your players excited and engaged. They haven’t done a great job with either here. But then neither did they with the Vermintides either.
I feel you wrongly assume that we caused the first class rework, we didn’t. The Veteran rework though, yeah, we bloody well needed it. And it still sucks.
Hence mah topic. 
They still don’t have the classes in a good place.
See, you get games like this, where the devs are just chugging along, repackaging and refining what they have a bit then releasing the next game.
Then you have other games, that just blow your freaking mind with the level of depth and complexity. I honestly couldn’t tell you how many months I lost in ACS, just trying to wrap my head around the Art of Cultivation.
I don’t expect the people in charge of Fatshark to suddenly take Darktide from its pathetic beginnings to some paragon of game design; But a bit more ‘oomph’ from the team managers and project lead wouldn’t go amiss, ayyyyy?
I was happy with the talent tree update, as I was with first veteran tree.
But the other changes were a disaster in my opinion. Keystones and the “simplified” talent tree.
Both changes removed a lot of choices for me…
I agree and said it again this week. I play satisfactory, 4 years in early access, more than 5 millions copies sold (in the top 30 of games the most sold in the world)… So yes, darktide was released while it was in a beta state… Not even an alpha, not early access… Just beta state.
This game is really complex… With pretty good mechanics.
Please no. I stopped paragon games, this is just dlc factories. But sure, it is cause I modded heavily stellaris and there was too many dlcs breaking lot of things. So i had to stop updating my mod, cause it was too time consuming.
I like dlcs, but paragon pushed this too far… Really too far.
I think we have opposite point of view… So, as i feel i exposed mine and don’t feel necessary to develop more.
vet is inherently a very strong class overall regardless of build, so when the designed the skill trees the made the vet’s more limited to keep them focused on one role over multitasking compared to the others. they mentioned this in their annoncement of the new builds. it’s not a problem it’s literally the point.
it “feels bad” because it’s doing it’s job of not letting you overtune vet for everything because the vet isn’t supposed to do everything. your wanting to do everything regardless isn’t a virtue here it’s just a personal preference.
if anything the vet’s skill tree suffers from having several skills that clearly need to be knocked down in effectiveness and others that need to be reworked from the concept stage because they don’t serve any function.
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Vet became stacks managing MOBA-Like Class. that is lacking, was fun…
One of the examples is VoC Keystone (Focus Target):
- Focus Target misses Sticky Tagging, although tagging in this game is not that accurate
- Focus Target 8 Stacks gives 28% Damage not 32%
- Focus Target does not support positive attitude from teammates by removing HvT as Fast as possible. (as in stacks faster regen or half price payback if the target gets killed fast enough.)
The list goes on, also that best Vet loadouts is either Melee Vet or Plasma.
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wondered what was VoC, cause for me it was voice of command.
Then realized that you talked about Focus target…
As I don’t use any keystone, and as I said that they are counter intuitives, focus target is the same, I don’t see why waste points here, well, I can say two things:
- if you use keystones, yes this is true. However, if you are like me, and a lot of other players I met, and don’t use keystone, veteran is not a stack managing class.
- All keystones, or close to that, are stack managing. This is the community that asked these (useless) keystones…
This being said, all veteran keystones are badly designed. The chosen triggers are not good. Stay immobile… focus a target in middle of an horde… switch between your melee and ranged weapon constantly… my god. Nothing of this is interesting.
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i mean, the vet is unlike the other classes in that the bottom of the skill tree is very far from being needed for a strong build. if you want to focus into a particular form of fighting with them fine but it’s almost always more useful to the team to save those points to spread out higher up.
if you mean keystone I agree. If you mean the bottom part is always the same or close to that, I agree again. However, if you say me that the bottom part is useless compared to the other classes, I disagree totally.
Talents like onslaught, precision strikes, deadshots, determined, desperado are game changers with the right weapon. And you can’t take them all…
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