I have already written my contention and it is obvious that thp will never be ditched from the game, so this discussion is more of further training of my english skills rather than to convince others.
I do would like to see an event over a week where thp generation is completely disabled. Just for testing.
So you are essentially doing what everyone else does, but at a much slower pace unless the rest of the team is running something thatâs actually effective and allows you to clear stuff quickly and move on. Your whole argument is beyond my comprehension, but thatâs just a fault of my own limitations.
This is just anecdotal stuff from my experience in game, but usually thereâs 2 kinds of natty b + healshare players. The ones teaching their forbidden secrets while mastering champ difficulty and the ones who spend most of a cata run tied up somewhere.
You also donât start the game with hyperdense mobs, patrols worth of ambient elites, waves of disablers and enemies deleting half of your health in a single swing. Thereâs a progressive increase in intensity as you go up in difficulty.
Yes, precisely. I limit myself because i dont want to use a ridiculous mechanic.
On the other hand, you are talking about efficiency, yet flamethrower weapons (who are the most efficient in dealing with hordes) are frowned upon because people need their hordes to generate thp. Quite ironic, isnt it?
You donât start the game with talents, full properties or traits either, it doesnât make any of those things noob traps. Theyâre just part of an effective build. Obviously if you make a worse build thatâs lacking something major, itâs going to be harder to play.
Also Iâm really not sure how youâre getting enough HP from NB to be able to vent effectively as Sienna.
Itâs not like Iâm just coming up with this dude, youâve outright said it when you consistently call thp a noob trap, as well as these quotes
If this is just a translation thing nws, but youâve absolutely been acting like youâre a better player and that people who think thp is necessary are bad at the game.
Man, i understand. You need thp to finish runs. Thats fine.
You might be more convincing if you were willing to provide some gameplay footage as has been requested multiple times. Iâm not even trolling, seeing even just a base Cata game with you not using thp talents would honestly be interesting to watch.
That is to say, put your money where your mouth is bud.
All Iâm getting is that you think thp is unnecessary and is a noob trap. I havenât seen any arguments as to why it is unnecessary besides you not running it and succeeding on Cata (Bioshift did a Cata Deathwish true solo without any usages of potions, does that means potions should be removed because they arenât necessary?) but for all I know you just play as host or as a client with sub 70 ping.
Flamethrowers are an unnecessary crutch. They simplify gameplay mechanics for other players and make the combat boring.
Edit: @Adelion I am sorry for contributing to your thread being derailed and will cease adding to this specific line of topic in this thread.
No man, i am not going to do that. I am only playing recruit. How would i do that?
AHA. The flamethrower simplyfies gameplay mechanics and makes the combat boring. Thats of course a far better reason.
Anything to do with modded realm should have no place whatsoever in the discussion of the difficulty or adjustments to the base game. Including DWONS+ in your argument should be disregarded in the same way as Explosive Throwing Axes mod is disregarded.
The modders can and will adjust their mod to the base game, rather than the other way around.
Oh please, Iâve in no way suggested I donât believe you can do Cata with no temp health, so donât give me that deflection.
I legitimately want to see it, Iâm completely open to the possibility Iâll learn a few things from it.
But you wont learn anything from it. I am a defensive and supportive player. What you will see is me just blocking and positioning and highly focusing on specials. Thats it. If you want to know how it is to play without thp on cata, then just do it.
Itâs relevant when discussing player skill and whether or not avoiding all damage is a reasonable way to play. Explosive throwing axes is ignored because they radically change the mechanics of the weapon, dwons is still vermintide at its core, and is where the best players tend to play.
If youâre not matching your skill to the content arguments of strategy just become a bit useless, I did a meme recruit fow run the other day without blocking or dodging at all, we just stood on the statue and wandered around sometimes. That doesnât mean dodging is unnecessary, it just means we were clearly too good for recruit.
I also used harder twitch modes as an example, both work fine for the point being made. Though the guy seems to have just moved onto random sarcastic comments now, so conversation is probably over at this point lol
Iâm not disagreeing that temp health canât get ridiculous. In fact, as I stated above, you can make an argument about it being too powerful in some regards, but the general answer to that problem is fixing the system, not removing it altogether. You are in fact still using health sustain, but in a much more diminished capacity via natty b. In some modded difficulties temp health does get beyond absurd, but itâs balanced out by the fact that enemies have stagger resistance, so they canât just be bullied to no end, and you also get destroyed anyway the moment something hits you. So itâs kind of a risky predicament, which some people like.
I donât have a problem with flamethrowers, in fact itâs my go-to weapon when Iâm playing IB. The problem is when people are clumsy with them and essentially deprive the rest of the team of gameplay. Itâs not fun to sit around idle behind a choke-point that the flamethrower is hogging. But if you play on a flank and roast diagonally from your team, so that youâre always burning the ranks of the horde behind the one which they are currently fighting, it helps quite a lot.
Ok sure, thatâs fine, but donât expect anyone to find you particularly credible if youâre not willing to provide evidence of your argument.
Regarding the whole noob trap thing Iâm pretty sure youâre using the term in a pretty unconventional way here.
The definition of noob trap Iâm familiar with is a skill which looks good to inexperienced players but is, in practice, less effective than other competing options.
Using this definition THP talents are definitely not a noob trap, they unquestionably increase your chance of success at any level of play.
You appear to be using the term to describe a talent that allows for what you consider to be sloppy or âbadâ play. Thatâs still a pretty extreme view but one youâd probably find more agreement on than suggesting that temp health talents are objectively less effective than the alternative (heal share), which is what youâre doing when you describe them as a ânoob trapâ.
This is addressed to everyone currently arguing in this thread: To try and steer the discussion in a more productive direction perhaps a more relevant factor would be identifying the builds that clearly generate too much temp health currently.
Hmm.
You know, my initial statement was about ditching the thp generation talents and not ditching all thp. I am actually quite fine with the thp granted by ultimates, because they cant be spammed.
I dont really need to be credible though, especially since everyone here can just go into the game themself and play a cata run without thp. Why havent you done that, if you really want proof?
I feel like you just ignored 90% of my post to deflect again so Iâm done trying to get anything fruitful out of this. Good luck convincing people of your extreme view points with that silver tongue of yours.
The other part was just about the term noob trap. What exactly should i have answered to that?
The most important part is the proof you guys want and i told you that you can experience the proof yourself by just playing a cata game without thp. If you dont even want to do that, why should i?
But i guess it is indeed fruitless. Apparently i made you guys feel bad for using thp, so i apologize.
I donât like the idea that THP is a crutch mechanic, since often times the word âcrutch mechanicâ is applied very unfairly to all kinds of things. Especially considering balancing the game with too much of a focus on the MLG Pro Turbo-virgin player level can potentially kill the gameâs enjoyability for the vast majority of players who just donât operate on that tier.
I like the idea that you can generate temporary health, basically short term damage barriers, if youâre offensive enough and being proactive. THP, at least in combat, is something you earn. You have to go out and get it. And as a Sienna main, I really like the idea I can use that as temporary fuel for venting overcharge.
I think of all the issues in this game, generation of THP is pretty low on my list. Especially when it comes to generating it in combat, when taking a single hit can drain all the THP you just earned. If you want to think of it as a safety mechanic, thatâs fine. I donât think safety mechanics are bad if they arenât ridiculous.
Yâall remember in Vermintide 1 when you could have a 10% to gain 10 permanent health on a kill? Ahhh, those were the days.