V1 didn’t have the same combat, the amount of enemies is considerably different.
Fantastic that you’ve gotten good enough to arbitrarily hamstring yourself based on your opinion of what the game should be. Other people do not think that thp is an undesirable mechanic, most of if not virtually all of the player base uses thp talents. Your opinion is not representative of the majority, nor is your ability.
I think they definitely need a rework or at least a lot of attention, but to say they’re a crutch for a lack of fundamental ability is just wrong.
I do think there’s too much thp overall, both from ults/careers and from thp talents, but I don’t think thp itself is bad or showing of poor skill. I simply view it as a way to recover from attrition damage (especially for clients) and as something that one can recover with from low health if they don’t get hit for a long time, which is more apparent with crit/headshot thp.
Nice that you are so good that you can play without a basic game mechanic, but claiming V2 wasn’t designed around THP being available is nonsense. The devs put it in the game from the start and made it pretty central with eventually its own talent row and all. They clearly meant it to be in the game, thus V2 was designed around it. And then they balanced the game in such a way that they took THP in consideration for what they wanted the overall challenge to be.
Just because you are so much more skilled than 99% of all other players and can meet the challenge level set with a proverbial hand behind your back means nothing. Argueing that THP is a noob trap that should be removed makes about as much sense as argueing that blocking is a noob trap. Or talents being an unnescesary noob trap because you finished a Back to Basics deed once.
And if you truly feel the rest of the game needs to be balanced around the niche gameplay that is high weaves… I don’t know what to say… Because of high weaves being such a fan favorite because of their widely acclaimed engaging gameplay style, right?!
Also, I’d really love to see you do a run of Cata FoW without THP in your group. Or even just even A Quiet Drink.
It’s not the same combat at all though, that’s the thing. Clearly you prefer the style of V1, and are somewhat projecting its gameplay onto V2. Play V1 if that is what you prefer but they have been fundamentally different games from the start.
Which isn’t to say temp health isn’t overtuned in quite a number of places, but removing it entirely is definitely not what’s going to help the long term health of the game. You’d just drive away half the players overnight.
I don’t really care if you doubt me lol, there’s plenty of proof of me playing hard stuff up on velsix’s youtube and in the onslaught tournament discord. Probably some vods from other players perspective on twitch too, though I have no idea how long twitch stores those.
I’m not actually aware of any group that plays high level content (modded or otherwise) that doesn’t use thp. All the twitch groups do afaik, never seen a cata fow group go without it, all modded people I’ve played with or seen use it.
Calling something a noob trap when people who are demonstrably not noobs believe it is meta is silly. It’s not, it’s just good. It lets you play much more aggressively, take more risks and do more damage. That’s always going to be better than having to play super passively and rely on healing items to recover from mistakes or just janky hitboxes/animations getting you hit.
If I had to wait half a map and pray for a healing item every time a zerker decided to launch himself through solid objects, or ice skate/air strafe around the map to hit me, I’d have quit a long time ago lol
It’s fine if you think there’s too much thp, that’s a topic that’s been discussed a fair bit and most people agree that the insane variation between some thp generation impacts the meta way too much, but don’t try to pretend it’s some crutch that only bad players use, or claim that you’re the only one who truly understands how the game is meant to be played.
Vermintide 1 and 2 don’t have the same gameplay either, I’m not really sure why you said that.
If you are getting sub-150 damage taken regularly in a Cataclysm run it’s usually a combination of the following things:
You are playing a very tanky career extremely passively, so you are largely a dead weight for your team and overall just slowing things down for them because all you do is sit around and hold block.
You are getting carried so hard by the people who are actually playing the game that your perception of events transcends reality, hits an overflow point and leaves you with the impression that you are actually doing something meaningful in the game.
I usually take very little damage as well relatively to everyone else, mainly due to the fact that normally I prioritize positioning over everything else. But the main reason why the run is actually successful is because there’s other people in the group who are willing to take more risks and play a lot more aggressively. If they all played like me it would be less risky for them, but it would also take way longer for not much benefit.
In case you don’t remember, the pre-release version of Verm2 didn’t have any form of dynamic health sustain. THP was introduced on one hand for the reasons already mentioned by Giggles and secondly because stuff in this game that you have no control over becomes way too punishing and frustrating to deal with. Cataclysm wasn’t a thing back then, but imagine a mauler randomly sliding around a corner and doing his roundhouse swing in a group of pros who are chipped down and have no means to generate health. Or imagine the pros being cornered and getting dunked on by a gas rat that doesn’t even have line of sight on them. Or getting yoinked by a silent packmaster in a horde. Or plastered by an assassin that just went supersonic through an entire chaos patrol. This game would become a very unpleasant chore very quickly.
You can argue that some aspects of the temp health system are overtuned or badly balanced. But the solution is to adjust those individual issues, not remove the system completely lol.
No, I’m justifying it because the game would be unplayable otherwise at high difficulty levels. And I’d genuinely want to see some of this god-tier no thp gameplay. To learn from the true masters and all that.
I am playing on the officially highest difficulty level without thp and i have played with teams who didnt use thp talents and it is indeed playable. I would assume you know this because your gameplay is apparently the same as mine.
Feel free to post some of your gameplay where you show us all how it’s done man, I’d love to see how to handle rough situations so well that thp is completely unnecessary. A cata fow run where no-one has thp would be pretty cool stuff, or just 200% twitch with no boons even, seeing as you don’t think modded stuff counts.
You should compete in the next tournament too, it’s always cool to get more high level competition.
I am not sure how it came to the point that i am apparently a godlike gamer for playing without thp. It looks more like you guys have never played without thp. There wont be something new for you to see in my playstile, i just block/dodge and attack. Its the same as you do, but i dont generate thp.
I play fairly defensively but I do run temp health so I’m nowhere close to achieving greatness. Also, I happen to play Sienna a lot and I’m kind of a noob in that regard because I use temp health as mana. How do you play Sienna the right way without temp health? Do you never vent? Do you never cast? Do you cast very little and vent quickly, before heat builds up?
Do you know what a noobtrap is? If you’re not saying you have exceptional mechanics or an exceptional understanding of the game, why do you keep implying that everyone else is a noob or doesn’t know how to handle hard content like you do?
I play defensively too and rather supportive. I run NB on Sienna for venting and of course take properties and talents to not have to vent so much or not take much damage from venting. Venting isnt much of a dealbreaker for me though, its almost the same as friendly fire.
Yes, noob trap in this case means that new players are choosing thp talents which allows them to do more mistakes and thus dont really learn how to play the game on higher difficulties. Thats a noob trap.
I never implied that i am talking to noobs here or that you cant handle hard content. But what i specificly stated is my assumption that the people who focus on thp doing the hardest content now will have a problem with the same content without thp.
Yes, in much the same way they’d have a problem without ranged weapons, or talents. Obviously when you take away mechanics the game gets harder, that doesn’t make something a noob trap. People who are demonstrably not noobs basically universally agree thp is better than the alternative, even with great mechanics and positioning choices.
You’re taking a reasonable point, that there’s too much thp, and running to ridiculous extremes with it, while implying people who disagree are just worse at the game than you.
The thp mechanic is not integral for the game though. You dont start the game with thp, it becomes a choice later on. Its not even slightly compareable to really limiting yourself to not use your weapons or talents at all.
But instead of you thinking i believe that everyone disagrees with me is worse than me at the game, how about you felt insulted by me not using thp and still running the highest difficulty. Because thats essentially what is happening here. I basically insult everyone using thp by saying that thp isnt needed.
Natural Bond isnt strong enough to generate enough health points to run from one horde to another with 100%. NB is for players who take small amounts of chip damage over the course of the run. If the player gets damaged more than that, NB is basically pointless.
