What is missing in the Vermintide genre: Killing by environment

Well, see this post more like a kind of critic on Vermintide 2 rather than something I wanted to make it into the game now. I won’t expect this to be added in close future, but maybe a possible third game?

Back in 2006 a game called Dark messiah was released. It wasn’t too popular and was far behind ubisoft’s expectations back then. But it had some ideas some games like Bioshock or Bullet storm (maybe not the best example) and “Dying light” were adding to their games later as well. I am talking about killing mechanics involving the environment.

In Dark Messiah it was possible to kick enemies down an abyss or into spikes mounted to walls or even a fireplace. This feature was later used in ‘Bullet storm’ or ‘Dying light’ as well which worked quite similar. In addition, in Dark messiah, Magic was used to perform physical phenomena which we know to be deadly. A casted lighting into a water was like throwing a Toaster into a bathtub, A wooden construction or oil could catch fire and was burning enemies close by. Bioshock later used a similar mechanic in all 3 games of its trilogy. It also added the AI to act on the situation, e.g. by searching for water for extinction of the fire. Dark Messiah might not invent these things but is anchored for this property into my mind. When Vermintide 1 was announced I was remembered of this gem, sadly without really giving back the feeling.

Even more sadly, in the second game, still not even one of these mechanics made it into the game, even if there are tons of possibilities Lore/Gameplay wise to add such things. Chaos Warriors might have installed torturing devices into Helmgart, (spikes, iron maidens ect) or Skaven were using spikes or swinging traps to defend their new captured land.
Most areas were shouting into my face, that I really want to push that Chaos Warrior or Skaven into this abyss (this is Helmgart!-like) for example into the pit of Helmgart, down a City Wall or the many bridges in the dwarfen city. Burning down wood constructions with enemies trying to escape the flames and smoke would make Sienna look like that crazy witch she supposed to be and might even force the player to cleverly use the magic. A shielded Storm Vermin would be less exhausting by just pushing him in either spikes or an abyss. There might be thousand of situations in which the environment could be cleverly used to avoid an exhausting, maybe even boring fight. While a swarm of smaller enemies might just sometimes be stopped by the environment (maybe imagine rolling logs down a hill by kicking off a shim which holding them back or ignition of tar or the cut of a rope of a bridge) stronger enemies might be taken out without much effort but clever quick creative thinking. This kind of killing would be even better than in Dark Messiah, since you are sharing the experience and might even be able to team up a maneuver. Off course, this might not be used every time but will round up your slaughtering sessions.

This would be off course be a total game changer. Possible not even “manageable” to integrate balancing wise into the current game. Engine wise it might also not be possible to do so without completely change the code. But In the end, there might be a 3rd game. And this game could be made very interesting, creating an even better gameplay experience with mechanics like this.

What are you thinking? Did you enjoyed Dark messiah back then? Would you like to have Environmental effects in the game?

This%20is%20Helmgart!

There were spike traps in some levels in Vermintide 1.

There is acid pool in a level in V2. There are fire barrels and fire bombs. There are gas rats and flame thrower rats that are like mobile environmental effects. If you want something like “lay down a pool of water and shock/freeze it” this is probably a bit too complex for a game like this. Not code wise but would be a bit of distraction from intense action. You might see stuff like that in mods though who knows.

I remembered myself spending like half an hour to install some trap or what ever with several pots of oil and “fire arrow” to set a bunch of orcs in fire just because I wanted that guys to slip on a floor close the water which lead them to fall into a pit. Yeah that might not work in Warhammer vermintide :smiley:

Well I dont imagine Vermintide to be like that, but e.g. a Chaos Warrior is directly took out just by kicking him into spikes close by.

Those weren’t the only traps in V1. In white rat we had the lightning traps that you could actually use as well to help clear waves on the different levels of the mission. Plus, other note worthy mentions are things such as the gates that would close n block your way in the finale when escaping castle drachenfels etc :wink:

The Spike Traps in Dungeons didn’t affect rats, but the warp lightning in White Rat would. Even an achievement based around that.

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