Dude compared Vermintide to Darktide

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
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Somebody probably did it already.

So, after some time playing Darktide and comfortably feeling at Damnation as Ogrin and Zealot, I decided to go visit Vermintide 2 for a change.
And damn I sweated like crazy, it was so much more responsive, fast, and damn satisfying to kill those rats, it also felt much better not to stall for 2 minutes to kill all shooters in the next room, just jump and slay. And when it went to bosses, oh my god, they felt much better, their fight were much less sluggish and just cooler to, well, destroy the bastard(I just hate to beast of Nurgle so much I hate him).

And, after all of it, it clicked for me, Darktide is a much different game, not better or worse, but very different. Darktide is not melee focused game at all, it’s more of a hybrid, where ranged weapon is standing as straight as melee, and that’s why it felt slow as hell at times, because I was playing melee focused class, where half of the game I was just standing still and waiting shooters to just die, or if it’s possible, wait behind the corner to lure them(not the green ones, they just don’t want to).

Ok, you probably already called me dumb, everybody knows that Darktide is hybrid between melee and ranged, but some questions really bugged me:
Why are hoards in Darktide easy as hell? (One exception is wave just before new room, where all the dudes from the next room come to you with the wave, but it’s more of the next room problem)
Why are we not being punished for stalling?
Why are some weapons just bad against something? (It vermintide I can’t recall any weapon that just impossible against armored)
Why there are so many shooters when only one class can efficiently counter them?

It’s all because the major part of the game is a ranged weapons, which now acts as your second weapon, that can also be primary, which means many things, such as melee weapon not being answer for everything, which also means that improving you melee skills is less important and teamwork being more of the focus.

By the way, my experience as Ogrin(and maybe zealot) may differe from yours, because sometimes game forces me to play solo for 10 minutes, and I need to be prepared for this situation(I don’t take cleaver anymore ;( it can’t deal with 5 ogrin enemies at once).

Well, that was more of my reasons why game is like this.
Thanks for reading, I hope you are enjoying Darktide and Vermintide, in any way you feel

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The thing i notice a lot more is the much larger prevalence of ghost hits and things just constantly not registering which has been a large bug bear in the feel department. Sure it’s not so bad with a fast swinging weapon like the knife, axe, or heavy blade but if you using a slower swing or you need to do a more precise combo (such as the block cancel with the Eviscerator to do a heavy + push + attack into another heavy sweep) it feels really bad.

I’m kinda feeling the hordes not being as impactful since the majority of deaths ive seen have been stuff where there is just a conga line of disabling specials over the horde actually putting on the majority of the pressure / doing the majority of the work.

The biggest issue im running into is that everything feels sticky for lack of a better term. Rather than sweeping through stuff and cleaving enemies often times it just feels like im getting constantly stuck on things and even on weapons with high cleave my hits just aren’t connecting properly.

The biggest example is stuff like the power maul, generally noticing that if the whole maul doesn’t connect with a target they don’t receive the power attack and it might be accurate to the weapon but it feels bad. I think there is a much grater emphasis on cleave having a major effect in Darktide and it’s not a bad thing but the entire end game is centered around hitting that cleave and hitting that horde damage breakpoint.

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Because we don’t have THP in Darktide. Hordes are more like difficult terrain than enemies.

But we are. Stalling is a sure way to get overrun.

I do agree that carapace is a bit too strong at the moment.

All classes have guns. All classes have access to high mobility melee weapons. I can see how an ogryn may struggle against shooters though.

Maybe you shouldn’t do that if you find it boring?

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Thanks you for replying. I should mention, that most of my points are from Ogrin’s perspective.
Your words about hoard exactly what I was looking for.

About stalling, I meant not in an event, but just generally, such as slowly killing all the enemies one by one, or luring half of the next room to us, to kill them safely. That is not really a problem, I just thought I needed to mention it.

About shooters, I do mostly play as Ogrin, and now that I look back on my words, I find the number of shooters understandable, cause all the other classes can indeed kill them almost as good as Veteran, it’s just that they are often not doing that(because their classes are simply not made in order to counter them).

About the last part, I find it most efficient to not go in ranged combat as Ogrin, because his ranged option is not as impactful to the number of enemies, and sometimes hurt my own team, such as Reapers hiding their head. And solo plays sometimes fun, it just really challenging to find all round type of gameplay style and gear.
Also, I am trying to find some other type of gameplay as Ogrin, that is as safe and good as mine at the moment, which is protecting others and not trying to kill myself fighting shooters or heading first in the next room.

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I understand, that’s what I meant too. Progressing through mission too slow triggers a response from an AI director. AI director will also try to kill YOU SPECIFICALLY with specials if you stay away from your team.

It also stops their barrage, that allows your team to counterattack!

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Alright, I will have to try out to stall and observe what exactly AI director is doing to prevent us from standing.

Yes it also stops them, but if you have a veteran on the team, their barrage most of the times not a problem. But generally, it depends on the situation, for example, if most of our team is more melee and we are being destroyed by shooters, it’s useful to stagger the Reapers for a bit, but if the Reaper is alone, and there are 3 Veterans on the team, it’s best not to act at all.

In conclution, I agree with you, but it’s a decision making thing, depends on what is going on.

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Yes! Excellent question! Can’t ignore the elephant in the room that we had 4 months of no crafting and no reasonable way for players to hunt for the meta. With that very real RNG barrier, I highly doubt the majority of players had these much revered and sought after weapons that pre-crafting threads gushed over. So, with the reasonable assumption that players on average were using passable weapons with maybe one or zero desired blessings, Damnation was still too easy.

Hordes are just not punishing. Stagger is a free resource available to all classes and the biggest, scariest elites in game can be bullied by way too many weapons. And it’s only going to get easier now because we can work towards a meta now.

The compositions of hordes are too simplistic. There just isn’t the same level of threatening variety as vanilla Cataclysm in V2. Elites and hordes do not mix often with trash mobs. Further more there is no infested elite currently in game so poxwalker and groaner hordes are largely kind of bland and alone compared to scab or dreg patrol encounters which will have three kinds of shooters and ragers and maulers in them.

And the enemy heavy units! They are so rare! Could you imagine if Footknight had a challenge to knock over 6 Chaos Warriors with an ult? He’d just find a Chaos patrol or just play the game normally. Chaos Warriors were everywhere and they were a powerful nearly unstaggerable obstacle without a high dps character who could absolutely destroy them. In Darktide the Chaos Warrior equivalent is so rare you’re lucky if 4 spawn in a room and aggro at the same time. Even worse, getting 6 enemy ogryns in one room together requires coordinated team effort to find and coral, it’s a cosmetic challenge and everything. You will never experience this game spawning 18 Crushers with intent to personally ruin your day like Vermintide 2.

Another excellent question! This game inspires a lot of lollygagging. Yeah, sometimes the best action is to totally retreat from a room of scab stalkers and force them to advance, but it’s still a very slow paced game.

…well… I mean… single target weapons were really bad at horde clear and horde clear weapons are bad against super armor. People here complained about powerful, non-specialist weapons all the time.

New enemy type, new way of playing. I don’t blame FS, i just wish the horde one room and shooter mob the next room formula wasn’t so steady.

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Oh, now that you mentioned it, I really do not remember often seeing hoards with elites spawning by default, usually it was the next room’s dudes coming over.

And we do have a really good amount of anti - hoard style weapons, also we can get a multiple dudes of the same class, which probably meant that Fatshark also needed to balance the characters with this in mind, such as giving every class every kind of weapon, be it anti - elite or anything else.

Heavy units are indeed rare, and maybe that’s why they are badly countered by most of the weapons and heavily contered by those that suppose to counter them, they needed to balance it out I suppose. And I really wish they would make some patrols as it was in Vermintide, because the only thing that we have, in term of being great avoidable threat, is Daemon Host(I want him to be a threat to all the team members, and not only two, because it’s kinda toxic to be honest and team just tends to just abandon them).

And about weapons, I just kinda forgot about a Mark’s one-handed sword, I mainly thought of Victor’s weapons choice.

I already stated my opinion on shooters in the reply above: “About shooters, I do mostly play as Ogrin, and now that I look back on my words, I find the number of shooters understandable, cause all the other classes can indeed kill them almost as good as Veteran, it’s just that they are often not doing that(because their classes are simply not made in order to counter them)”.

Thanks for the reply, like your attitude about the gameplay of Darktide

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Im personally very happy that Darktide differs in so any ways from Vermintide. Why would I want the same game again just with a different setting? Now if I want the Vermintide experience I play Vermintide, If I want a pure shooter experience I play Back 4 Blood/Left 4 Dead/World War Z and if I want a hybrid I play Darktide. Thats perfect for me. I Also really like that Darktide feels more Teamplay oriented than Vermintide, with roles being more specialist.

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I actually don’t agree. These guys being so hard to kill is one of the reasons this game feels more teamplay oriented. Specialist roles should deal with those guys which means there needs to be an understanding in the team who is best suited to deal with the threat.

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I also think that Darktide forces you to play more in the team than Vermintide, because you simply can’t survive on your own without Toughness regeneration, and because if you are playing melee based class, such as Ogrin(who is also support), you typically want to stay near your ranged teammates, who can be any other class.
About roles being more specialist, I do not really understand what do you mean by that.
And to your recent reply about Crushers, I now actually think that they are pretty easy to kill if you played enough of quick games, because you generally want to fill all the roles at once in order to not run into the problem of all melee team(It’s really not a problem for all ranged team to be honest, it actually better that way), and if you are running the pre set team any problem becomes criminally easy if everybody do their job well, high intensity Damnation runs becomes more fun than hard, which is good and should be rewarded

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