50 hour play time on Ogryn and my thoughts on the game

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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I’m writing this to try and cut through all the noise that’s on the forum about the game and our beloved big guy and my favourite class and main, the Ogryn (Skullbreaker), with the hope that it can ground people’s expectations about the class and what his play style is like, what it should be like what it shouldn’t be like and the state of the game, and also fingers crossed that someone from Fatshark sees this and takes note that regardless of all the bugs and issues they have made a fantastic 1 of a kind game and made my dream of a 40k setting fps that I’ve had since I was like 9 years old. Thank you Fatshark for making my childhood dream and I’m sure a lot of others come true.

Now first let’s talk about these posts where people are, to put it politely “confused” with what Darktide is.

People coming to Darktide from Vermtide 2 are coming from a game that if you’re a “gamer” you are able to seriously solo the game or “clutch” without too much problem, all classes in Vermtide 2 can deal with all enemies reasonably well, all classes have accessible horde clear, armour piercing, elite killing, special killing and boss killing potential. Now what I’m going to write next I want everyone to re-read at least 3 times.

Darktide is NOT Vermtide 2
Darktide is NOT Vermtide 2 with a 40k reskin
Darktide is its own game with its own unique gameplay

And as such its own unique gameplay is quite different to Vermtide 2, yes both are melee/ranged horde killing dungeon crawlers with fast paced action filled combat, just like football and tennis both use balls but they are not the same game, and trying to compare the two is unfair to both games.

Also all this shouting and crying about game optimization and lack of content and such

  1. The game isn’t even out yet, remember it’s not released until the end of the month so save your breath till then.
  2. The question of content was addressed by a post by Fatshark themselves stating that up to the official release, content will be drip fed to the player base most likely so no one could boss 100% pro complete all achievements done the game before its actual release so chill out.
  3. I bet most of you don’t remember what vermtide 2 was like back when it first came out if you do then you’ll know this release has been a breeze compared to that so stop acting like spoiled kids and realise it could have been literally unplayable for weeks, yes the buggyness is annoying but your still able to play mostly uninterrupted for the majority of the time.

Now that we have that out of the way we can go back to the big lug and how he plays.

Remember what I wrote earlier about vermtide 2’s classes being jack of all trades ish ? well in Darktide it’s the opposite, classes are very specific about what they do, so let’s break that down.

Veteran: Master of ranged combat
Zealot: Master of melee combat
Psyker: Master of burst damage
Ogryn: Master of Crowd control

Now before people start @ing me of course all the classes can do everything in the game but when you play out of a classes specific role/strength you are at a severe disadvantage. Yes the Zealot and Psyker can use a lasgun just like the Veteran, but can they press a button and highlight targets and increase their weakspot damage to one shot key targets ? no. Fatshark themselves stated in numerous blogs and posts that they want the classes to have very key skills and play styles, which takes us to the point of this post.

The Ogryns main function in the team is to be an anchor, a place in the fight that is a safe spot for the team to rally around and hold ground preventing it from being overrun by the heretic filth. He’s able to do this because of his ability to stagger almost any enemy in the game reliably and repeatability, and a Support by being able to revive quicker and safer than the other classes and all his weapons can either stunlock or stagger mobs allowing for easier kills for the other classes.

His main function is NOT his ability to kill high armour high health mobs, which the Zealot and Psyker are designed for or his ability to combat ranged mobs that the Veteran is equipped to deal with. So all these posts from people asking for blanket buffs for the Ogryn’s weapon damage to be increased I’m sorry to say but you’ve failed completely to grasp the concept of him as a class and if you try to play him as a fat Veteran or Zealot you’ll be sorely let down because he’s not designed to be played like that.

With all that said I do believe as it stands he is currently the most difficult and underperforming class in the game with many glaring issues that perhaps have been overlooked by the dev team currently.

The most glaring and biggest issues I have come across playing but keeping in mind about class identities, the Ogryn is a big guy, his hit box is roughly the size of 2 of the other classes standing very close together but he also has around double the amount of health of the others classes and built in mitigation.

Ranged enemies: they are completely oppressive and on level 4 to an extent and 5 definitely, you are locked into only using the shield just to survive more than 2 minutes of ranged combat without which you are getting chunked in seconds for the simple fact that unlike the other classes you cannot reliably take cover.

Toughness breaking stun: linked with the above problem is the toughness breaking stun, you know that half second stun you get when it breaks? that confounds the issue where when trying to move to limited cover you get stunned and can’t move meaning you take more damage or when waiting for his yearlong reload on all his guns it interrupts the animation forcing you to restart it, I’ve taken huge amounts of damage or even been knocked because my toughness keeps getting broken and I get repeatedly stun locked, this does feel like an oversight on the devs part and is absolutely punishing on high levels and led to me and I’m sure many others feeling cheated and left with a sense of “I’m dying to unfair and unfun game mechanics”

Specials: due to his hit box size and depending on the mobility stat of the equipped weapon it can be virtually impossible to dodge specials such as the Dog, the Sniper and especially the Trapper, with the Trapper being the most troublesome, the nets hitbox can be completely off screen (I play at 105 hfov and 71 vfov) and it still clips my hitbox and gets me, again leaving you feeling cheated. I’m leaving out the mutant not because the same issues don’t happen but because I feel we can all agree that he is completely overtuned and needs major whacks with the nerfhammer.

Mob overcrowding: most notable when using the shield but also when normal melee fighting if you pay attention, there is an internal game system mechanic that’s been coined “hyperdensity” basically it’s how the games AI tells where all the mobs are on screen and where they can walk to, so in really large hordes or when holding a hallway or door with the shield, the amount of mobs can be so great that they push/phase through the Ogryns hitbox and can hit you in the back and trap you, hopefully this is just a game bug and will get fixed in patches but it has caused me more than 1 knock so it wasn’t just a 1 off instance, it seems to be mainly Elites that can pass through using the shield so you can imagine the annoyance when 2 Crushers or 4 Ragers just pass through you and start hitting you in the back, Also it kind of defeats the point of blocking a passage way when the things you want to block just turn into ghosts cause of poor coding.

There are other issues such as getting shot from below when on a ledge even though you are completely out of line of sight and weapon hits such as the slap from the club phasing through enemies but hopefully these are server and hitbox issues that can get patched.

As with weapons and balances I agree there is a slight lack of content compared to what the other classes have been given from the get go, and his skill tree is very lacklustre already leading to monobuilds because certain feats are just outright better (level 5 single hit toughness regen is wayyy better and more clutch than the multi hit regen) and there’s at least 2 feats that should be standard (the grenade box opening on carapace armour hit and bullcharge restoring toughness per number of hits) but I figure that’s the case with all the classes at the moment, and there are problems and things again overlooked such as the Ripper and HStubber only gaining 2 bullets back from the Veterans passive but the Kickback, Rumbler and GGauntlet getting a full round back and speaking of the Rumbler in 50 hours of play I still don’t know what its point is when the GGauntlet exists but they all function in exactly the play style of the big man, massive crowd control and shouldn’t be majorly changed, and I’ll repeat that statement with all his melee weapons as well, they all function in relation to how he should be played and if you disagree with that then I refer you to my earlier statement of you’ve failed to understand how he’s designed to be played.

But all in all I’ve been having great fun playing it, I think the game has very solid foundations to build upon and all the classes feel fun and very unique, full of flavour and the concept of class roles caters to my love of MMOs.

Thanks again Fatshark I can’t wait to see where you take the game.

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If you really care about giving good feedback, you shouldn’t write with such a condescending, know-it-all attitude. No one wants to engage with someone who believes their opinions are facts and anyone who disagrees is just “shouting and crying.”

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I agree with most of the post, however as a point of irony:

The game is not vermintide, but it sure does share one hell of a lot of DNA
Hordes (Not Skaven and Not Nurgle Warband)
Specials (Disablers, Flamers, NotRatlingGuns,…)
Elites (Zerks, Maulers, NotChaosWarriors,…)
Equipment system
Equipment stats
Perks
Objectives
Method of “regen”
Animation of the enemies
…

Not vermintide eh? :slight_smile:

Also dw, other classes can’t reliably take cover either, enemies shoot you over it

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Of course it does share a lot of its DNA, but out of curiosity, would you consider ARMA and CoD the exact same series because they both have guns, people and share eras, objectives, etc?

Sarcasm aside, the reality is that the two games are different and not just a reskin on many front. There are enough mechanics in the game to make it different from VT, but the focus alone is a huge change. While many claim that melee might still play a big role, the truth is that ranged combat has a major role to play in more ways than what we ever saw in VT.

I have enough time put into VT to be able to say that I am having significantly more fun with Darktide than I ever had with that game, but most of it has to do with me liking the more fitting setting experience, but also just more satisfying combat. I never really enjoyed the idea of L4D in the Warhammer Fantasy universe since I personally enjoy the idea of actually fighting in big battles which was not the point of VT.

Meanwhile what we are getting with DT on that front is an experience you could sorta have with 40k. Obviously, I could do without the insane hordes we encounter, fighting off actual warp sickness like it was a casual afternoon stroll at times, but when fighting things like the traitors and the cultists, it feels highly satisfying when the firefights begin. The surroundings are also impressive to me as they do really give us the 40k aesthetic.

But to go back to the original point, most people in the forums seem to think that DT is just VT with a 40k skin over it and as such base their entire take on the game with that mindset. When they criticise mechanics, they are doing it with the idea that they are still playing VT and that is just plain wrong to do. It also doesn’t help that a good amount think that just because this beta takes us to launch day that the game is already “fully done” and this is just another Early Access everyone is used to on Steam where the game is done, but the devs can use the excuse “not out yet, see? We are early access!” for every piece of criticism thrown their way. They are testing parts of the game via a stress test of sorts, so they can fix the biggest problems before they release the full game. I consider this way a much better way of handling it rather than dumping the game out on release date, only for everyone, including they themselves, that half the game is outright unplayable for performance reasons they couldn’t really test out prior.

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Your comparison is a tad dishonest. You got my point.

You say it’s a shooter, fine.
Yet whenever you take a ranged weapon out, a lone melee wretch walks out of a concealed doorway behind you to stab you, stun you, etc.
And there there are hordes, which are designed to swarm the players and defacto overwhelm your firepower.
“But melee classes are there to keep the range dudes safe”
Yes but no. Because melee dudes are hugging the same cover you are and do not have the ability to keep a ranged character safe from all angles. The level design of this game does not allow it, the only place a ranged character can be held safe by a melee is in the corner of a room. When that happens, there is never any cover (level design obliges, you can’t stick cover in corners or you create fortified positions).
And even if you decide to find a location where you can “hold”, all the range enemies & specials created specifically to flush you out are here to break stalemates.

And surprise surprise, that is exactly the Vermintide Loop.

Difference is, in Vermintide, Area Denial is created by specials, not normal goons with rifles that spawn in groups of 10. Here, the number of times a normal enemy with a rifle just snuck out of bounds to hide in an elevated position and peper the team with hitscan point accurate ranged fire is frankly sickening.

Not the same game, but the DNA is 99% the same. Like comparing Hmo-Sapiens and Hom-Neandertalis.

Fun fact: can’t use latin names here ha

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Well obviously you can’t keep them safe from all angles at all times, but in my experience so far between the two games, in VT, I see everyone in the moshpit whacking, every now and then someone breaking out of it to tap the occasional special that tries to do something funny only to get right back in. In DT, I see them attempt to stay behind enough to be able to take out the several dozen ranged people firing from the rear. When running from A to B, same thing really, the ranged guys are focusing on taking out the ranged enemies that might hinder the melee guys but ultimately want to stay in the back to use their actually more powerful weaponry.

Though the all angles part is partially due to how they do the game director right now which is a tad too generous on the enemies spawned behind people to be a problem. Again, just a personal experience being totally different for me between the two games, even my melee experience is different than it was with VT funnily enough, since I am now having to also take the ranged guys into consideration and I didn’t have everyone hop into the moshpit the moment the *hit hit the fan.

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Half the classes are melee based. Yet from what I’ve understood so far in your posts is that Melee have to wait for Ranged to be done

I’ve been playing T4 and some T5, in T4 you can hardly push out of cover, if two enemies are looking your way, forget it.

In T5, it is suicide.

Ranged compagnions just cannot take out an entire squad of ranged enemies at once. They have to find the targets, and play the firefight game, which is not instant.

As a melee class, my weapon selection/ammo and my health pools do not fit that purpose. As a zealot or an Ogryn, you have less Toughness and no good range regen. You poke your nose out and need to wait to regen.
In those cases as a melee I find myself waiting for it to be over completely bored.

And that’s a frustration point that will lead to players leaving the game (oooh game design classes I miss you)

We haven’t even touched ranged enemies spawning behind you.
No, balance and behaviour right now are out of wack and we are essentially QA testing the game for release.

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My main point from the get-go has been to support the OP’s original point to not compare these two games like they are one and the same. You don’t play these two games the same way, and if you do, you will not have a fun time, at all on most difficulties. There is also the problem people are ignoring that VT is a game with over 4 years of post-release development behind it with several DLCs, refinements and, of course, player experience that has led people to adapt to the way it plays from, say, L4D the series originated from.

Meanwhile DT is currently in Beta and closing release, which means it won’t have much content. VT2 didn’t have that much in it either on launch, but not many remember that detail due to how far away it is. I basically would like to see people be patient and look at what we currently have as its own sudo-isolated thing. Comparisons can be made of course, but to start every, every SINGLE argument with “In VT2…” gets extremely pointless after a while because it just makes me go “So go play VT2 then? This is not VT3???”

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Thanks for this meaningful and on topic reply you’ve posted, if I wanted someone attacking my thoughts instead of actually contributing to the conversation I would have posted this in a YouTube videos comments section, but seeing as you clearly feel personally attacked with what I’ve wrote perhaps my “opinions that are facts” are correct ?

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So based on this does that mean that we can compare Mario Party to Vermtide 2 ?

both games can be 4 players coop
both games have character perks
both games have objectives
both games have animations for enemies
both games have equipment
both games have equipment stats

because of these are all things both games share so they both technically have lot of each others DNA yes?
but is it fair to compare them ? no of course not they are different games, so why are we comparing Darktide to Vermtide 2 ?

@KarampaFIN comparison isn’t dishonest, both ARMA and COD are FPS shooters set in the same timeframe with the same factions and same equipment and the same gameplay of shoot the bad guys yet you won’t accept these to be compared but are trying to compare Darktide and Vermtide to each other because ? they are both FPS with ranged combat and melee combat with baddies you’ve to kill and objectives you’ve to complete ? now thats Irony.

my post is to talk about the identity of the class and the concept of the game not on individual scenarios that happen within the game, the Ogryn is as I stated the crowd controller and make space and safe spots class of the game, just because you got hit by a lone enemy or shot from people in cover doesn’t change the classes overall function and again you are trying to compare Darktide to Vermtide here by talking about how Vermtide works.

but seeing as we keep trying to compare them together we shall continue for sake of argument, yes half the classes are melee focused, but the game is now NOT 60% melee and 40% ranged like what Vermtide is, its the opposite, like it or not the game has a much slower pace of play than Vermtide does, you will be spending alot of your time in cover being suppressed, thats typical of fps shooters, finding that boring suggests you don’t find FPS games fun or maybe is it because your comparing a Melee focused game to what is now a Ranged focus game ? see that danger of comparing the incomparable ?

enemies spawning behind you was also in Vermtide I’m not saying its not annoying and possibly unbalanced but why does Vermtide get a pass on it but for Darktide its unacceptable ?