Weave Feedback after clearing 120+

Yesterday, i cleared weave 120 and tried some over 120. Since there is no change over 120, I think i enjoyed all about weave and i want to share my feeling on Weave game mode.

  1. Essence

Before starting weave, i cleared all cata mission and got essence from clearing them. I didn’t decide what career i would play but essence was enough for me to level up my amulet and weapons for starting. (4 legend for cata unlock + 18 cata except Dark omen which had crash bug on finale) I can’t remember exactly but it seems that my power was already 400 ~ 600 before Weave 1. Even though there was low reward on low diff and much lower reward on replay but i didn’t suffer from essence depletion. Essence was always plenty for leveling weapons and careers. Also, i heard that there would be no reset on essence collected. So, essence is on good spot.

  1. Time grinding

2-1 Time on Playing Weave
Weave is seriously time grinding contents that don’t fit Vermintide 2. Be generous to assumption that i clear without fail till weave 100 each 15 mins. It is 25 hours already even with generous assumption. Around weave 100, you will face trash mobs who can one shot you no matter how many of them targeting you. let’s say that after weave 100, i took an hour to clear each weave. Then my total clearing time to weave 120 is 45 hours and it is only when there is generous assumption. I don’t know that this is truth or not but from comment on reddit, guys who cleared weave 113+ first spent 30 hours on it. Then, real clear time would be crazy high compared to ideal one.

And my playtime for clearing all contents on south park : fractured but whole is 31 hours. How long did i take to clear south park : fractured but whole? it took 3 weeks to clear it. Because i have a life, i need to earn money to live, i want to spend time with my family & my friends, i can’t play a lot. Well, there are people who can play a lot each day but most people can play 1 ~ 3 hours each day. With 3 month time limit, only who can invest significant time can climb to weave 120 and it is silly. If WOM was not released on august, i wouldn’t clear 120+ without Vacation.

2-2 Time on getting Premade
On Vacation week (1 week), i didn’t suffer from getting premade. I added 30~50 guys before WOM for playing deed or hypertwitch or DWOS and most of them are veterans. But after vacation, getting player became time grinding work. For me, i came home, took rest, turn on PC at 8~9pm. And what i did? I spent 1 ~ 2 hours a day to get premade. Problem was worse by few players stayed vermintide 2.
I saw only 3~5 guys playing vermintide 2 and asked some who don’t play vermintide 2. Their answer is VT 2 is not their game anymore, they will play borderland 3 or remnant from the ashed or deep rock galactics. So, Getting premade cost time a lot to me. I could play Weave 30 ~ 90 mins per day after vacation. Even on weekend, everyone wants to have a time with friends & family so i could play 2 ~ 4 hours on weekend. For me, it was lucky that i had guys who have good skill and patience. Can casual players reach to 120 with it? Even time spent on getting premade is massive and it is almost impossible to player base. Also, don’t forget that casuals are the guys who will makes you rich.
unless J-sat buy 100000 copies of your precious WOM.

  1. Difficulty

There are only 2 times that difficulty rising on entire Weave 0 to 160.
Around 100 and around 115. Why?
Around 100 is the stage that trash mobs one shot you.
Around 115 because of specials and archers. Reaching 120, archer will deal 110 on 120, rattlings do 40~50 and you will likely die if you can’t kill them. To be honest, I blamed this stupid hidden enemy damage buff but i felt it fun. We had to set strategy, we had to adapt it. It was fun till you reach 121+.
After 120, you face same preset weave with 1000% damage boost. I found that this is boring. Enemies already one shot you and we already adapt it. There is no difficulty rising and also, no reward over 120. Fighting them with same way for 121 - 160 as before 100 - 120 is makes me feel less interesting. Why i should play over 121 - 160 as same way? Even Wind’s penalty is same. you got 40~60 damage from being pushed on 116 - 120. And 40~60 damage from being pushed on 156 - 160, too. So, we felt over 121 is boring and we stopped playing weave. If you know how to fight one shot enemies, 121 - 160 is no problem but only time grinding for nothing.

Leaderboards? If i really care ranks… i would do PVP games or real work for money.
It seems fatshark don’t understand why we play ‘PVE’ games. I mean, what is the merit of becoming elitis on pve games? PVE GAMES IS SUPPOSED TO MAKE PEOPLE HAPPY BY COOPERATION, NOT COMPETITION.

So, in my opinion, Artificial way of Weave difficulty scailing fails both casuals and hards.
Weave failed. WOM failed.

22 Likes

First thing I wanted to say: Completing that many waves, impressive! I think there’s probably only a handful of people that managed what you did, so I guess you’ll get little discussion about high level weave gameplay I’m afraid…

There’s just one thing I found remarkable: At the end of your post you say “weaves failed”. But, you said this after writing how you had fun completing 120(!) Of them?! I mean, that seems a bit of a strange combination. You played this game(mode) for hundreds of hours, and pushed it to a level only a minimal percentage of even the most active players will ever achieve. What did you expect of it then?! And if you disliked it; why do it?! I’m honestly confused here.

6 Likes

I imagine part of the reason he stuck with it was to make an accurate assessment of the system, since a lot of dissenters could easily say ‘well you didn’t complete most of it’ as a means of handwaving his arguments. I’m also not sure what part of his post sounded like he enjoyed it. I imagine morbid curiosity may have had more of a hand in motivating him, just to see how much more absurd the experience would continue to get.

I don’t think the ‘playtime’ argument is worth bringing up since even the base game wastes a lot of the player’s time - just based on his post a great deal of time was spent not even playing the game and trying to find players, losses to instant kills, no doubt looking at boring crafting menus and post-game screens, etc.

More importantly, now that someone else has done it and ultimately confirmed it isn’t worth the hundred+ hours exhausted on it, nobody else has to subject themselves to it. We appreciate your sacrifice, SpaceJellyKing.

5 Likes

Personally, I don’t leaderboard, but enjoyed seeing my friends compete on them (so support them in some way, as I don’t see friendly competition as something that inherently breaks Verm), but I have concerns about sustainability long-term past season one when the newness of “yay, we did it!” wears off (can almost promise they’ll be super empty for console port, where our playerbase is but a fraction of PC’s). This hits the nail on the head on why. Well said.

For me, my problem with weaves (the only higher one I tried was around 92), is the feeling of them being mini-FoW-esque. Learn strat, die, restart if something goes wrong, go at it for another large chunk of hours, feel burnt out. It’s not the weaves I dislike, it’s the inherent grind that comes with them in a game that already has more than enough grind. While I realize they are scripted to be random to some extent, I just feel kind of…tired on them after a certain amount of time as a casual player and wasn’t inclined to do more. I’d be more tempted to do adventure maps on Cata 2-3 levels (without the scaling) as incentive to do hard content rather than a weave with scripted features and then with a small assortment of variability (part of why I haven’t touched Cata FoW either). There’s just something about adventure maps that’s a bit more compelling to me.

IDK how to further describe it. Weaves can be fun, but they’re not always fun, if that makes sense.

I think weaves could be successful, just not in the form they are in now.

4 Likes

I didn’t want to criticise the man or defend weaves as a gamemode. I played hardly any of them yet, so I don’t have a strong opinion on them one way or another. It’s just that I fail to understand how he played conpleted all those waves (which is a great achievement), says he enjoyed it, and then declares the gamemode a failure because after weave 120.(120!) They get repetitive. It’s like watching the extended Lord of the Rings movies in a marathon session, and then declare them a failure because there aren’t more… I mean, what did you expect then? 120 weaves is not exactly a small amount, must have been his money’s worth with the time he spent on them. Or did he indeed only do it to be able to properly criticise them? That’s also baffling to me, as that would be like going to a buffet, eating 20 servings of everything, and then declaring you disliked the taste. I’m just confused, is all…

1 Like

Apologies if my post sounded more accusatory than anything, i’m actually not interested in getting into a big ol argument about how someone spends their time. I can definitely see where your confusion originates. Like I said, though, you could still probably imagine someone wanting to be thorough in an analysis, and thus enduring the frustrations involved in order to gather all the information he required. His tolerance for pain is pretty high compared to you or I it seems.

Part of the hang-up may also be that he uses ‘enjoyed’ to describe his time pretty early on in the post, and I took that to be more sarcasm than anything, so I apologize for this difference in semantics. Have a nice day.

4 Likes

Would probably like to ping @fs-bigras there !

I’ll add stuff from post 63 only.
Some weaves are only frustrating. Weave 23/63/103 is nothing interesting past the hard beginning (because the beginning is already hard enough, having us to rush through specials, and trolls is kinda nonsense). It’s only too much mobs with a time limit far too tight.

I guess my party won’t really be able to spend the time needed to complete weaves in less than 2 months in order to reach 120, because of the insane peak of damage that makes melee passive and boring, but also the time needed to actually complete thoses weaves.

If you look at the 160th weave, you’ll see that people :

  • Use a battle wizard, because it’s kinda the safer current way to beat actual hordes as they are now (because of the lack of cleave, damage, safe blocking, insert some others reasons here). I swear that if this is nerfed because the end of the season, you can tone down weaves as they won’t be completed very far anymore.

  • Use a lot of ranged, because again, when you up damage, melee is unreliable especially since all the nerfs. There’s a clear limit on how much you can increase hp, there’s also a clear limit on how much you can increase damage.

I certainly would like you to revise the weave before the end of the season so they becomes a bit more doable (even if you keep some “hard ones”), if the reward is complete at 120, you should consider that a bigger range of your most actives players should be able to complete it.

Feeling burnt out is kinda what we felt at the end of the 63 (only HALF of the road when you actually want the frames), we spent hundreds of try, several days, for hours and hours, and we didn’t really “enjoyed the difficulty” as we knew that it was not “the final weave” at all, and that we were going to easily complete the next ones compared to this one.


On the season 1 challenges part, remove all “complete x games with careers”, we don’t care if there are only 3 challenges remaining. That doesn’t serve any purpose apart from increasing frustration of not having enough time to complete it all.
What’s the real deal with having us to complete 40 times weave 1 to do it faster :confused:


Other issue is we don’t really know what will happens at the end of season. Are weave resetted ? Does aethenor stays ? Do weaves actually change ? Do we keep Season 1 challenges tab, is it deleted, do we still see that we have uncompleted challenges ?

I think the challenge could be toned down a lot, and allow people to actually compete ON TIME SPENT on each weave rather than the last weave reached.

I also think that this season 1 should serve as a “beta” and that you could makes changes DURING season according to your stats, despites the fact that it changes the meta, as long as if you nerf something that is used, you also tone down the difficulty.

Finally, I think that the challenges should be tried with your internal team at first, because some “obvious” things could be prevented earlier. Like, thinking that weave of death actually needs you to get back regularly to prevents exploding orbs means you lose time. Having sniping specials (globadier, long range flamers, ratlings, beastmens) in the weave of invisibility where we can’t actually kill them easily is also kinda strange.

It’s okay to have hard weaves though, but the progress is really “too” slow at the moment.

2 Likes

I feel you. All this leaderboards idea is pointless. Why? I just finished a map with some guys from Asia. it’s hard for me to identify the country but I think somewhere around Indonesia.
In this team we all was immortal, but for real. We do not recive any dmg!. Saltzpyre flew if he couldn’t jump somewhere. Just great.
If this game has such poor protection against trainers and hacks, the whole idea of ​​leaderboards is simply meaningless.

3 Likes

Weaves are also totally failed content for me as well. I’m on the verge of quitting V2 for now because WoM offered no new content that I was interested in other than Dark Omens, and I’ve already finished everything old and new.

I’ve thought that an interesting suggestion would be to put the backwards maps into the game, but make them complete. That would be a huge improvement to adventure mode.

Then make the weave effects a deed modifier of some sort for flavor.

I’ve got friends with the time and energy to do the weave thing, for them its more about status and accommplishment in a game they love. Since I care about those things IRL and not in games, its just not for me to even consider pursuing.

Also, they told me that it wasnt really fun. Its about breaking the game. Its also only for premades above a certain point, and because it simply isnt fun. . . the people that have cleared it, will have little to no interest in doing it again, and there are only a few that can do the content in the first place. Meh.

1 Like

We will have some news very soon on our plans for weaves going forward, thanks for the patience on the near radio silence we have had a lot to do!

11 Likes

Someone put 160 completion on reddit. https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/cyzpfv/world_first_weave_160_the_final_weave/

Is this what’s to be expected?

Can you not? Even people who do the weaves don’t enjoy them. For the most part, I have only heard pining for some sort of modded difficulty that provides a challenge. Weaves are not interesting gameplay. Please stop forcing it. Leaderboards are not interesting. Please stop forcing it. I actually enjoy a lot of the changes in WoM. I’ve found it interesting to learn some new mechanics. However, weaves are splitting the player base. The community of players capable of running modded difficulties was already infinitesimally small. Now, that number is almost zero because the players capable of doing modded difficulties all feel like they have to climb the leaderboards. Just because people are forcing themselves to do bad content for mediocre rewards does not mean it is good for the longevity of the game. If you continue to incentivize playing mediocre content through arbitrary rewards like leaderboard rankings, you are simply going to burn out the grinders and the rest of us will leave because the game feels empty and dead.

3 Likes

^ I don’t mind having challenges in game that incentivize different playstyles and the use of different careers but I completely agree with Froh on this one. When we’re looking at a game mode that doesn’t offer any rewards for completing weaves after the first completion (whether it’s to gain an advantage, compete on leaderboards or help a friend) is just ridiculous. The weave-specific challenges were a bit hit or miss but at least they encouraged different playstyles and builds, along with teamwork in some cases.

…speak for other people please.

I, for one, do enjoy weaves to an extent. There are many flaws baked into weaves but I appreciate these miniature FoW more than I’d expected.

3 Likes

No problem here, I’m fine with you needing time, and glad you tell us you’re working on it !

2 Likes

Blockquote
I, for one, do enjoy weaves to an extent. There are many flaws baked into weaves but I appreciate these miniature FoW more than I’d expected.

This is exactly how I feel about weaves. They could have been pretty damn good if it weren’t for the many missteps Fatshark made in their creation (absurd essence grind, awful matchmaking, losing to the timer because nothing spawns etc.) I’ve been enjoying some of the mid-tier weaves when I can find a party, but I think it was definitely not worth the time investment on Fatshark’s part. However, its quite clear at this point that, even though most of the community aren’t interested, too much development time has been sunk into weaves for them to be abandoned. I would like to see them fixed, but at this point, whoever is in charge of game direction seems to be almost completely at odds with what the community wants.

I am still flabbergasted that weaves are referred to in promotional material as ‘infinite endgame’ and yet have been deliberately designed to have far less replayability than the main game.

Maybe the upcoming news bigras hints to will signal improvements. I really hope so, but my expectations can’t be anything but low at this point. There have been too many design failures thus far (and I say this as someone who loves Vermintide).

4 Likes

IMHO they should leave the previous season of weaves up so that those of us who do not have tons of time can still attempt to earn the frames and challenges.
Obviously the leaderboard for that season will need to be closed off or whatever. Wouldn’t be fair other wise.

I have a wee bit of OCD and not being able to complete the challenges and get the frames because of not having enough time to get it done would be crappy.

Yeah, 63 is a major pain in the butt. Ran out of time at the end event quite a few times.
One time the Mino had a sliver of health left .
I would imagine on 103 it’s even worse.

2 Likes

When I first heard about weaves I thought it would be randoms pieces of maps (put together with portals or something like that) with random winds and random enemy spawns. This… almost puzzle-like nature of how weaves work seems weird to me.

1 Like

Yes, I will repeat what other people have told me. Thank you for your input.

1 Like

I don’t like Weaves, they only divide the playerbase of the main game mode. Also the grind aspect does not appeal to me at all. I would rather have more variety, challenges on the main maps. New maps would not hurt either.

Some nice daily quests introducing new challenges on all maps would be nice. Something like:

  • Bring 5 barrels of gun powder / sacks of grain to an Empire war wagon
  • Find a kill an enemy champion
  • Find and recover a chaos artefact (with similar mechanic as on one of the DLC maps, the artefact carrier gets grey health only

You could multiply these quests based on the Warhammer setting and make them far more immersive than “weaves” or “Get 4 tomes”.

I also really hope also that V3 will no longer have RNG based crafting and “x% to Y” item stats.

I rather know how much time I need to spend to get a specific weapon of a specific quality, even if it requires hours of gameplay and have different interesting combinations of skills and stats than this RNG frustration. The same applies to weapons properties. If I get anti-chaos weapon, I should not need an Excel spreadsheet to work out breakpoints in order to make it an optimal build…

Speaking of weaves. Hey fatshark devs, id like you to play weave 114 and tell me how far you made it :rofl: