Warpick discussion

The Dwarf Warpick has been in a sorry state for a long time.
The new Coghammer makes pickaxe reduntant with a move-set that is very similar but significantly swifter. Only Slayer is seen using pick anymore as a secondary utility weapon.

Problems and Suggestions

Light attacks are slow, very slow, you must be very disciplined in your dodging to stay safe.

  • I don’t like giving weapons Critical chance as a bandaid, but without modifying attack angles I don’t see another way of competing with Coghammer’s faster swings.

Shielded enemies don’t care about slow high damage attacks. Warpick has to waste time or stamina opening guards.

  • Allow Warpick heavy attacks to ignore shields. This gives the weapon utility and reinforces the nature of an elite killer.

Uncharged Heavies/Pushattack aren’t great.

  • I get that the Charged Heavy is meant to be the Pickaxe’s thing but these other attacks are too slow and weak to be useful, boosting the stagger/damage power can help these attacks find a place.

Subpar Monster damage.

  • Taking time to whack monsters with cumbersome charged attacks should be more rewarding.
26 Likes

Base damage on warpick light attacks is extremely low. While it has armour-piercing on lights, it is completely negligible. Has great cleave, but can’t cleave elites. As it is now it has extreme overlap with Cokhammer.

Changes I would make are:

  • Greatly increase base damage of light attacks
  • Moderately increase atttack speed of light attacks
  • Increase mobility stats to 3 dodge count with 10% dodge bonus (up from 2 and 0% respectively)
  • Lower cleave of light attacks significantly (either take away Linesman or directly lower cleave)
  • Slightly increase attack speed of heavy attacks

The way I see it, it makes little sense for warpick to have such high cleave and such low base damage when it’s a spike getting pushed into enemies. The changes I propose would make it into a bigger 1h axe, with enough cleave to hit 3 Chaos Marauders on official, and much higher actual killing power than current Warpick ( proposed damage not specified).

It should also be really solid at killing armour, on-par with something like greathammer.

Increasing mobility makes sense since it’s not nearly as heavy of a weapon like 2h hammer is, giving it mobility on par with polearms like billhook and halberd makes sense.

This transforms the weapon into something much more distinct. It makes it a high killing power weapon with decent mobility but low crowd control and is more fitting from a thematic standpoint.

12 Likes

Not really sure what can be done, the damage profiles appear to be the exact same but faster and Tank rather than linesman. (Coghammer heavy 1 also does more damage against armored than Warpick uncharged heavies)

Charged warpick heavies piercing shields would be a nice addition to justify the slow attack speed.

3 Likes

I´d like to highlight the issue of axe and pickaxe having a rather similar role too,both seem aimed at wrecking armor primarily, but Axe also has good monster damage, and if i am not mistaken it breaks shields even on light attacks.

The only downside it has relative to pickaxe is needing more attacks to kill armored targets but on the other hand it´s faster in terms of mobility&overall speed…Warpick meanwhile seems super specialized in hitting a single exposed enemy hard with a single heavy attack but then it cant do anything beyond much beyond that point.

1 Like

While Warpick is definitely in need of help, I feel like the real issue is just how much Coghammer goes over its identity while having none of its own. What about it even makes it seem like some kind of mechanical weapon a crazy Dwarf engineer would use? Besides its random clockwork parts moving.

I would have really liked to see it be more unique. I was expecting a giant cog wheel on the end of a pole that would actually rotate. Keep the same lights, but make the heavies rev up the cog and it just spins and buzzsaws enemies with a bunch of quick AP hits (that don’t do a ton of damage, but have high stagger). Its current moveset could equally have been given to just an average knight’s poleaxe.

6 Likes

I really love @Rebel 's ideas here. That would make the pick a lot more effective, while still having enough distinction from the Coghammer and other weapons to have its own identity. If you combine these ideas with the heavies bypassing shields, you have a somewhat specialistic but solid and unique weapon.

8 Likes

I prefer OP’s suggestion. It builds better on its existing function, and it won’t remove a relatively easy to use (attack pattern) armor piercing weapon with acceptable crowd control for non-dlc owners.
Also, ignoring shields and higher monster damage on charged attacks sounds a lot of fun. I’d rather have that than a faster, easy to swing and dodge with, weapon. I agree that it’s lighter than the 2h hammer, but it’s still something unwieldy. Making it too similar to the 1h axe (fast, single target, strong heavy) would muddle its identity imo.

2 Likes

No. Dont give warpick more crit chance. It will make swift slaying mandatory on it. Warpick are able to stagger almost all elites with light attacks reletivily well (except for super armour, berserkers and monks) with opportunist.

Before the engi dlc, the warpick was bardins only weapon with good cleave on light attacks. Reducing its cleave like rebel want will just make it even less useful since it would be extremely slow while also having bad cleave. No, 2h axe isnt an good option. 2h hammer is better in almost all instances.

What i would do is increase the attack speed with 10-13% on all attacks. So that it has 0,75-0,79 attack speed.

Make all charged attacks ignore shields

Make the push attack have the same cleave as light attacks when hitting unarmoured targets. It should function as it does now when hitting an armoured target.

1 Like

?? dual hammers and 1h hammer have good cleave on lights

5 Likes

No they dont. They have 5.9(something) cleave with the tank trait while both warpick and cog hammer have 8,95 where warpick have linesman trait and cog hammer have tank trait.

that’s still good cleave lol, stagger cleave is also a factor to consider

6 Likes

You’re wasting your time trying to talk sense and logic to dead ranger, the guy has 1000s of hours and is clueless about basic game knowledge. I’ve had dealings with him in the past and i regret attempting to reason with such a person each time.

1 Like

bit blunt innit?

Regardless, I try to treat everyone on an even level unless things clearly derail

Its armour and superarmour dps values are much higher than the 2h Hammer’s, so being on par would be a nerf. It does so much bodyshot damage that increasing the speed of the heavies may make it too rewarding.

Their stagger cleave is very high indeed. 1h Hammer’s 17.91 while DHs is 11.94. Most of Kruber’s weapons don’t even have that much stagger cleave. They give up damage for safety in terms of cleave.

Please keep your personal gripes off of the forum threads. Don’t need to be a moderator to know that it’s common sense to send a post like that as a private message to a user.
Edit: Sorry. The way I worded that was as if I was a moderator. I just think we should keep the personal stuff to private messages. It’s what makes the site a healthy place for discussion.

I’ve disagreed with Dead Ranger many times before as well, but it’s important to remember how players reach different conclusions and to stay polite in public discussions. If not for that, I would be calling players like Core a fool for using BCR on the Rapier on dwonsc3 (when it reality it comes down to different experiences and playstyles imo).

3 Likes

Well im just telling you my experience with the guy is very negative, you/me and him may as well be playing two different games because the way he talks about the game he comes off as someone who is absolutely clueless about the state of very basic things regarding vermintide 2.

1 Like

anyway, moving on, warpick’s lights currently are cumbersome and slow

coghammer is similarly cumbersome but attacks much faster

Thing is I don’t think just bumping up pickaxe’s attack speed would be enough to make it relevant (unless you made it absurdly fast). It needs other things going for it so it’s not just a slower coghammer

4 Likes

I think the coghammer will get some kind of nerf first (my guess would be to its speed), so we might as well wait a bit before basing our suggestions upon its use.
Not saying that’s not a valid point, just that I think that kind of overlap should be resolved - generally speaking - changing how the newest of the weapons work.

3 Likes

Can you explain?

tbh I think it’s less likely for newer stuff to see change beyond bug fixes unless there’s something that’s at the point of being exploitative

1 Like

Warpick could be to coghammer what 2h axe is to 2h hammer: more speed, more damage, less cleave, good armour piercing on both charged and uncharged attack, and I have always been in favour of fully charged attack ignoring shields.

3 Likes
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