You’re starting to sound like me. These veterans must have the loudest voice in the galaxy, right?
But yes, this ability needs nerfed. At the very least, it shouldnt stagger monstrosities. That is overkill plain and simple. There is absolutely zero reason why it should be able to do this, and it couldnt do this when this ability was first added. Gold toughness as a whole should be removed, it is easy mode pure and simple. This ability is just one of the many poorly balanced features in this game. We are so long overdue for major balancing changes that i doubt will ever come.
i posted this in another thread, and i think it would be a nice twist to shouting at bosses:
it’s weird how jimmy cadian can stagger bosses by shouting at them. would be fun if they just have a “wtf bro” moment and then go extra aggro on you because they’re provoked, so one should check first if shouting at them is worth the risk. this should be an easy change.
Sidenote…
Auric makes things easier cause you can kill elites / specials and that a lot of bonuses come from that.
Of course, the fact there’s a lot of them is what it makes it difficult. But not too much more difficult as there are CDR in everyclass and toughness regen also based on elite / special kills
Malice probably. Or with a static group that is all “must meta” builds, does everything the most braindead way possible etc.
There is a reason that someone noted that “gamers will always optimize the fun out of a game”. Because its true. And once they have the “optimum” setup they harass and bully in-game and on forums etc until that becomes the only setup they see. Then months (or less) later they complain that things are “too easy” and call for nerfs to everything but what they enjoy.
Its almost like people get what they ask for then suddenly realize just how butt ugly it actually is up close.
If the Alt+F4 fix is correctly implemented (so that even when leaving there is no bot that appears magically with 100% HP) the difficulty will raise by a lot. At least, the feeling about the difficulty will raise.
Great points! Also I apologize. I completely misunderstood your experience level with the game. While being experienced in one class isn’t ofc the same as another, it’s miles better than having little experience in the game at all. Somehow I got the picture from OP that you were a returning player from 2y ago.
Not to offer excuses but most all balance discussions & suggestions tend to come from very new players, and sadly there’s no shortage of people making sweeping balance statements with all the ego & authority of an expert when they haven’t even grasped the bare basics yet.
But yee I do agree that VoC is overtuned, it’s not completely bonkers broken but there’s a reason it’s one of the few obvious & excessively popular meta choices in the game (which is why my inner snowflake demands I use it as rarely as possible.). But imo as a psyker main who still semi-frequently plays all the other classes too, psykers still have the far higher potential.
I mean if I had my way I’d nerf the vets in 2 ways:
First, nerf the cleave on plasma’s hip shots only. This way you’d need both firing modes depending on situation, which would need better judgement & skill, add extra delay & ammo use on average, and bring the risk of secondary overheat back. Hip shots cost 3 ammo, charged ADS costs 9, and rn the 3 hip shots will do more dmg with 3x more opportunities to cleave while auto-venting at 100% heat. So it’s no wonder the weapon is OP.
Second, I’d nerf VoC. VoC’s main issue imo isn’t any one thing, but how it just has it all:
It’s mid lane, making it easily accessible to any build
It has the best talent path through with stuff like
Demolition Stockpile (nade recharge)
The +crit passive just 1 talent point away from it
It’s the cheapest ult both through its path & bc it only needs 1 subtalent for its best version
Leads directly to bottom mid lane which both leads to Tactical Awareness (ult recharge boost), and is basically the optimal path no matter what keystone path you’re going for
It has one of the lowest CD’s in the game, is instantaneous, affects a huge area, and the shield buff has a ridiculously long 15s duration
Compare this to zelly’s Chorus for instance:
Chorus is a step away from most optimal talent paths
It requires 2 talents minimum, 3 for its best version
Has a CD of 60s, 2x longer than VoC
It’s channeled instead of instantaneous with a weaker knockback, so you can’t take advantage of it to attack nearly the same way VoC can
Its shield buff & 2:nd subtalent buffs both have a 10s duration
While Chorus is in theory the stronger buff what with its duration & continuous stagger & toughness regen, and how it actually prevents death while active, in practice much of that strength is superfluous. VoC effectively does the same job but is way faster to use & recharge (and can’t be interrupted like Chorus). The fact that you can keep its shield buff running indefinitely with just ~2-3 specialist+ kills every 15s doesn’t help.
Honestly I’d just reduce the shield buff’s duration to 5s and increase VoC’s own CD to ~40s and call it a day. I’d also remove the radius reduction from the rez talent.
The revive node is a trap , it only has uses if a teammate gets down at point at a point of no return where you can’t reach him which is fairly rare.
Also Vet is strong indeed - as long as he has ammo. Psyker doesn’t care about ammo and decimates everything, and tho think they get a 2h force sword now too…
That’s very interesting to me. I have 1500 total levels across all 4 classes, 500 of which in Vet and you fall for the noob trap of revive shout. Not meant in a mean way, just didn’t expect someone with way more playtime than me to not know this interaction.
Revive shouts aren’t good for multiple reasons, especially if used incorrectly.
The amount of times I died to being revived in the middle of a firenade are insane.
The optimal use for shout vet is to spam is the milisec it comes off cooldown unless you’re not in combat and then kill 1 or 2 specials (depending on team comp) and you have 100% uptime for the shout buffs.
If you take the res talent, it costs you 1 more point, makes the radious smaller and increases the cooldown.
And it’s the wrong philosophy to build with too. Building with the res ult is building for failure where as not having it makes it harder to fail to begin with.
Also, what nice thing did you have to say in that, now hidden, message? I didn’t get to see it
It’s a trap as far as immediate understanding is concerned. It also promotes suboptimal behaviour as you’re inclined to hold onto a strog ability “in case it becomes useful later”.
New players will look at 50 temp. overshield vs. an instant revive and think the latter is far stronger, without having the chance to come to a different conclusion.
You need so much more knowledge to understand why it’s not better and I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone take both.
Yeah I feel like people overhype how bad it is. Like there’s nothing stopping you from throwing a frag nade on whoever you’re about to shout to their feet or use any of the other tactics you normally would without it and still benefit from not having what you were doing disrupted as much to get the revive off.
Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think it’s worth the increased cooldown on average (or more pertinently the extra talent point spent) but it’s hardly impossible to get value out of it.
Edit: Wasn’t really clear here, but a criticism I often see of it is reviving allies then them immediately getting downed again, which is mostly what I was addressing in the first paragraph.
Yellow Toughness is insane regardless of who pumps it out but to pretend that Psyker is this meek little baby class compared to Veteran is laughable, I’m not sure why Psyker comes with this inbuilt victim complex when it’s easily the class with the most builds that break the game over it’s knee.
funny thing is i myself won’t have an easy time with vet when i choose to go for a suboptimal build
probably because getting good also mean pushing your class limits, and whenever i go off my rails i underperform, that’s another reason why i keep saying VoC should not be a thing in the first place, it creates too many bad habits, that could just disappear the next balance patch
i think its because they have been spoiled all along
The bad reputation comes from the fact that worse players are more likely to pick it and worse players will use it poorly. Reviving you without removing the threats frist is just not smart. “But why would you pick the res ult to have to revive the same way as if you didn’t have it?”
Again, I’ve been revived into instant death only in one way; shout vet while in a pool of fire.
Yeah that happens too. It just doesn’t result in instant death half the time, at least in my experience.
Come to think of it; what changes would have to be made to res ult for it to be worth picking?
No downsides, besides the extra point cost and 2 to 4 sec of invul. to the revived target(s) is my pitch.
I completely misunderstood your experience level with the game. While being experienced in one class isn’t ofc the same as another, it’s miles better than having little experience in the game at all. Somehow I got the picture from OP that you were a returning player from 2y ago.
). But imo as a psyker main who still semi-frequently plays all the other classes too, psykers still have the far higher potential.
I didn’t get to see it