Veteran's Voice of Command is a Broken Ability That Hurts The Game

Voice of Command is such a broken ability if you think about it, one button press, and every enemy is knocked onto the ground + it gives teammates toughness. If you pick the left node (Duty and Honor) it gives way more toughness, that can turn an instakill 300+ damage attack into a 0 damage baby attack. The right node that revives people with the shout is kinda garbage, but it’s still useful and at least it’s an option for people.

There’s been many games where I’m using Infiltrate or Executioner’s Stance instead of Voice of Command, and it always feels like throwing. There is no other class where I feel like I’m throwing by picking a different combat ability than I’m used to. There’re many reasons for this and I will of course get into them because it’s fun to complain about stuff.

#1 By taking Infiltrate, instead of Voice of Command, you will have to invest way more points to actually get what you want out of the ability. Voice of command really only needs 2 nodes to function at 100%, (the ability itself, and Duty and Honor). Infiltrate would feel horrible limited to the ability + 1 node, but if you take more it leaves less points for the rest of your build. Executioner’s Stance is just bad, so you’re basically wasting all of your points on it if you use it, but it’s also bad because it’s harder to access the other keystones, unless you really want to use marksman’s focus, where you have to stand still to get extra headshot damage.

#2 Executioner’s Stance and Infiltrate are both objectively worse compared to Voice of Command. Infiltrate is like Zealot’s Shroudfield except it’s underwhelming as hell. Executioner’s Stance is honestly so bad that I really don’t even need to explain myself, but I will talk about it later.

With Zealot’s Shroudfield, you can run behind a tough enemy, instakill it, or do 50% health damage to a monstrosity instantly. You also have the option to complete an objective or save your teammate.

With Infiltrate, you either pick the node that gives you -90% threat on leaving stealth and watch as all of the enemies run away to kill your teammates, while you helplessly chase after them, hoping to accomplish anything. Or you take the node that gives +50% toughness resistance on leaving stealth. You can’t really take both, since if you have no threat there’s no reason to have +50% toughness resistance in my opinion.

But yeah, even with the +30% damage for 5 seconds on leaving stealth node, Infiltrate feels so underwhelming compared to Shroudfield, that I just ask myself, “Why am I not playing Zealot right now?” With +30% damage for 5 seconds you can mag dump a few guys, maybe kill 1 or 2 more than you would’ve normally if you hit all of your shots perfectly within 5 seconds, but the damage bonus really doesn’t last very long considering the long cooldown of 45 seconds, 1 minute cooldown if you have 2 Infiltrate charges.

Yes, infiltrate lasts longer, so it’s technically better for doing objectives, but unless you’re doing the Hab Dreyko finale, you don’t really need the 4 extra seconds, even for an objective. Plus, 80% of the mission is not scanning objectives - so what is the point of Infiltrate?

Executioner’s Stance is simply a terrible combat ability. Wow I pressed F and it took my gun out for me, I probably could’ve done that myself - but wait it also gives 25% ranged damage and 25% ranged weakspot damage for 5 seconds! No way, and you’re telling me that if I take the other nodes for Executioner’s Stance it will outline an enemy for me? This is absolutely insane! Yeah, I understand killing outlined enemies refreshes the ability so I can do slightly more damage to people, but I really don’t see the appeal.

At least Infiltrate gives utility to you and your team, what does Executioner’s Stance do that you couldn’t do normally without the combat ability? With most guns, it shaves 1 bullet off of the amount of shots you will have to pump into an enemy to kill them. Plus, Executioner’s Stance doesn’t even reload your gun anymore. You have to manually reload it just to make sure you will even be able to use your ability. Nothing feels worse than activating Executioner’s Stance only to have 1/3rd of your magazine remaining because you forgot to reload.

#3 Voice of Command is a completely braindead ability, you press F and you get instant value no matter what, even if your teammates aren’t near you, you still knock enemies back and receive a toughness boost. Even if you press F for absolutely no reason with no enemies around, you still have 150 toughness for 15 seconds, then you just need to survive for 15 more seconds to use it again. This isn’t even accounting for Tactical Awareness (A veteran talent that reduces ability cooldown by 6s on a specialist kill) or combat ability cooldown curios. In what situation would 150 toughness not be helpful? Basically, every problem in this game is solved by pressing a single button when you have Voice of Command.

Infiltrate and Executioner’s Stance are both situational, and there are times where you won’t get much value out of either of them, or the other times where you do get value, it doesn’t feel necessary. Plus, most of the time you revive someone with Infiltrate, it can be accomplished with Voice of Command by pressing F and reviving them normally. I also feel bad dumping aggro on my team sometimes when they can’t handle it, but I have to or else I literally get no value out of Infiltrate.

This is how I feel playing Veteran. With Voice of Command, missions are noticeably easier, while using the other abilities are like putting a handicap on myself and my team. I really don’t want it to be nerfed honestly, I really like the ability. However, I can’t deny that it is extremely braindead and removes a ton of the challenge from the game. When I get overtoughness from a veteran, I feel like I can do whatever I want, and usually I can.

Executioner’s Stance really needs to be buffed, whenever someone on my team uses that ability, I have to stop myself from killing enemies or else they will only be able to use their ability for like 5 seconds. It’s really sad, honestly. I don’t think I’ve ever been in a situation where I lost and thought Executioner’s Stance could’ve helped anything, unironically in fact, I have been in the situation where I wished I hadn’t taken Executioner’s Stance.

Infiltrate is okay, I really like using it, but it’s not Voice of Command lol. Maybe one of the nodes should be merged into the main ability, perhaps the +30% damage node. The 4 nodes feel like a lot of investment for what you actually get out of Infiltrate.

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It’s mainly the cool down reduction (CDR) that makes it as hilarious as it is. We’re still at the “beam staff wiggling to proc CDR” stage of the game with all the ways you get cool down reduction, exacerbated by how so many of the CDR nodes for all the archetypes affect everyone in coherency. It was an issue they solved (not gracefully, but still) in the last game, but always inexplicably makes a return anyway.

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I simply think that the “Duty and Honour” node is too powerful. The toughness boost effect should be removed and replaced with something like toughness damage reduction.

ES has been buffed and is now quite powerful since its duration is extended when you defeat enemies in close combat. Plus, it has a wallhack feature that lets you see enemies through walls. on top of that, it significantly reduces recoil and spread, making it extremely strong for landing headshots on mid-range enemies without ADS.

If you think ES is weak, you’re simply using it wrong. I’ve never once been outperformed by other team members in terms of specialist or elite kills when using ES.

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There’s no denying that it’s strong, and tbh that’s how I like my support abilities. I would say it’s only as “brain dead” as the beholder as I find it quite fun and interesting to use. I like to pay attention to how many allies are in coherency to maximise its use, keep it up my sleeve for incoming dangers, and generally watch peoples backs. I mean I do that anyway but an ability like this complements that playstyle a lot.

It does feel like the cooldown is quite short for how strong it is, especially in higher difficulties when the specials come thick and fast. You can literally spam it during a pox hound wave lol.

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1000% agreed. The location in the tree, the gold toughness node plus the 6 second cooldown on specialist kill being right below it while already having a short cooldown make it ridiculous. Throw iron will into the mix and vet becomes tankier than Ogryn.

This ability pretty much does everything. It even stagger MONSTROSITIES. How loud do these vets yell?

Oh, and since there are no class locks, you can get 4 of this guy for infinite stuns and gold toughness.

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This was refreshing to read. Honestly, kudos. We need more of this.

I appreciate how thoroughly you’ve thought through the mechanics and design choices of the Veteran class abilities. Your breakdown of Voice of Command’s effectiveness compared to Infiltrate and Executioner’s Stance goes beyond just listing points; it actually brings people into the gameplay experience, highlighting specific scenarios and outcomes that really make your argument persuasive. It’s clear you’ve spent a lot of time exploring different builds and understanding how each ability impacts not just your performance but the overall team dynamic.

Your post has a strong, logical flow, with each section adding new layers to the argument. I also like how you make room for some subjectivity by saying that Executioner’s Stance and Infiltrate have some utility, even though they ultimately feel weaker than Voice of Command. You clearly explain how the mechanics - like cooldown times, toughness boosts, and node limitations - create a practical gap between the abilities, making the case that Voice of Command delivers consistent, easy value.

It’s refreshing to read a critique that balances frustration with constructive insights, too. By mentioning where each ability could improve, such as the suggestions for Infiltrate’s node setup, you turn your analysis into something productive rather than simply critical. I think your post nails the balance between personal experience and in-game evidence without slipping into too much hyperbole or exaggeration, making it feel both thoughtful and fair. Keep up the good work!

This loud:

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I really think that VoC is the greatest veteran ability. However, gold toughness is a difficulty problem.
My opinion is that the effect should not be shared with the team and should be personal. It should also last 10s.
However, considering the middle tree that is about “commander” and so helping/buffing team, then they should rework the gold toughness to be less invulnerability. Several made propositions for this.

Exec stance is good… But far away of the VoC. Maybe a little TDR bonus could help make it better? If I remind well, it was here before patch 13

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A very good sum-up.

I think, instead of having the rez node having two penalties attached to it, one of those should be rolled into the base ability (either range or cooldown), and then another node added to aleviate some of that.
Gold toughness is an interesting conundrum - I like having it, but it’s plainly too strong.
Maybe make that reduce the stagger on nearby enemies to an actual stagger instead of “put everything short of a Spawn flat on its ass in an area that psykers wish they could push enemies in”.
Or have the strength of the ability scale with live teammates in range - it’s supposed to be a team ability, after all, or at least I assume that by its name.

By now, I mostly use the other two abilities when trying out a specific build, and frequently, it’s a better gimmick.

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I’m thinking that VoC should only give you +25 Toughness Overshield instead of +50.

On top of that, making it only knockback/stagger the enemies that you’re facing (like Venting Shriek) might make it more balanced while retaining its cool factor.

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they should remove yellow toughness completely tbh
absolutely gamebreaking mechanic
removing all cdr would also help

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Completely agreed. MAYBE zealot’s relic should still grant it at full pulse, because it is quite thematic to the ability. Also that ability isnt nearly as spammable

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relic deserves a rework
not exactly an engaging ability, holding a fridge magnet and knocking everything down isnt interesting
i wish it was also closer visually to the artwork on zealot’s tree
would be cool if you could put it down as a buff banner or something, anything to just let you attack still

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It’s also the only ability in the game that costs two points. The stagger effect it has is not part of the base skill and you’re forced to spend an extra point to continue down the tree.

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Yep, although I can already hear the warcry butthurt Vet main coming your way.

I would’ve like infiltrate more if it have better offensive capability rather than having to f up first to get the most out of it. It also won’t help you avoid getting netted or eat an overhead.

Execstance is kinda fine after the buff that make it not drop after swapping to melee I guess.

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I disagree with this point. I want VoC a little different than venting…

For your first point, I think Fatshark will balance all ideas, if they decide to change this talent (and they should).

They need to keep the talent, and that this talent is protecting.
The question is, do they need to share the effect? cause the problem is more when there is 2 veteran with this talent, and also the time that lasts this bonus.

Increasing the cooldown is also a solution
But it would not address the situation where 2 veterans use it.

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Completely understandable, I’m just throwing out some ideas and seeing what others think before I fully commit to making my balancing suggestion proper.

I like to have a reasonably large consensus of ideas or feedback before I make my ultimate decision on something.

The Zealots’ CoSF Toughness Overshields don’t stack when two Zealots use CoSF concurrently.

I’m thinking that maybe Vets shouldn’t be able to stack multiple VoC Toughness Overshields concurrently either?

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Not going to read all of that, just wanted to say i agree that VoC needs to be nerfed. Either by tweaking the CDR talent or by adding more cooldown to VoC.

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I agree mostly with what the OP is saying.

However since it is the only decent ability Veteran has, I’m kinda with Ralendil. I want Veteran fixed I really do, but you know what else needs fixing?? The rest of the game! We need more maps, more weapons etc and yet we keep hassling Fatshark to fix the core systems of the game.

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I’d love to see Infiltrate become a team ability, or at least have a node that makes it a team ability: Where Executioner’s shares targeting and VoC shares toughness, Infiltrate shares stealth.

Bonus points if a collective aggro dump can make Crushers swing at each other.

Oh: And I would agree that VoC would be improved by some sort of nerf, even as ES and In. are buffed.

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Infiltrate IS a teamwork ability.

+30% revive on curios, infiltrate and Leave no One Behind is the strongest and safest revive in the game with its 8 second duration compared to Shroudfields 5 now and 6 seconds in the previous patches. Not to mention that most of the time Infiltrate Vets are the ones doing all data interrogations and vacuum capsule objectives.