Executioner’s Stance is in a weird place since precision/heavy weapons (Helbore, Plasma, Revolver) don’t really need the damage boost and things like Brautos don’t get much out of the precision side.
Middle lane builds with Revolver gets as much special/elite control as any Exa build, which is probably a Revolver problem and not a Vet problem.
It’s not that good on Vet in general, although with the finesse changes a crit build might be fun (Surgical + Cavalcade). Probably the next thing I’ll try out.
I feel like it is just eclipsed by other weapons for general and special use cases, especially Revolver, but the fact that it doesn’t have enough ammo to run it with heavy ranged focus (Exa stance) and not having enough impact while being unwieldy (long pull out time) prevents it from being a good pick for both Middle or Left lane build.
I have yet to find the time to play all of Vets toys again. The Bolter was the first thing I checked, since it was kind of ham fisted into a place that just doesnt seem compelling in the overhaul patch.
I wasnt impressed.
Right now the Bolter fights for his life vs the Revolver and that five shot wonder handily beats the Boltgun in every aspect but clip size. The Bolter has plenty of downsides for his supposed destructive capabilities. Awkward ammo economy that punishes unloading, a weapon swap animation that makes you able to grab some coffee from the kitchen and sit back down before its ready to fire, and awful ADS kicks after each shot. The kick and the danger of overdosing on caffeine can be solved by taking executioner stance, but the Revolver does not share those downsides at all. It just works as well outside that Buff, as it does with.
Funilly even the ammo situation with the Revolver is better now than ever. Plenty of one body shot breakpoints make sure of that, while the Bolter still needs double that for lots of targets.
Which leads to the VoC buff. Weapons that dont need Executioners to work will by default be stronger atm, because you can take VoC instead.
Iam pretty happy about the (probably over the top) PG buff, and the Revolver is in a great spot right now too, but the Bolter needs something. I dont know what the answer is exactly. Pushing the standard ammo cap to over 100 to grant one Bullet per kill might already be enough. That way you could unload at times and recover while sniping and picking some bags. We still would be tied to Stance instead of VoC to use the Bolter comfortably, so who knows?
Nonetheless, Vet right now is alot stronger than before this patch. Executioner Stance recovering while being buffed, and VoCs reduced CD achieved their goal.
I’ll admit that even pre patch 14 I’d mostly settled on VoC for my brauto build (though at least as much for point efficiency as preferring it as an Ult), but god damn do I miss the spread and recoil reduction of Exe when I don’t have it. It feels like it makes a very noticeable difference to your effective range and also lets you just hold m1 rather than burst firing most of the time.
Please dear god FS you gave it to Zealot for some reason. Please put a spread/recoil reduction talent somewhere in the tree so there’s an option for it without having to commit your whole Ult to it.
Edit: Technically deadshot also kinda counts but uhhhhh trying to use that on a rapid fire weapon seems pretty ill advised.
Majority of Vet’s “spammy” weapons have 4 stamina & Vet has 2 stamina base.
4% is about 0.24 stamina or 0.28 (+1 stamina node above Tactical Awareness)
New deadshot consumes 0.25 stamina per shot.
There’s very little difference at base but you can at least benefit from +stamina curios/nodes now.
Deadshot consumes more stamina per second now.
If anything, new Deadshot is slightly worse than it was pre-patch for slow firing weapons with 2 stamina that commit to long ADS times e.g Helbore
I’ve been enlightened to the fact that there’s a big bad buff bug that affects revolvers, which may explain why you’re seeing more on top of the more these last 2 updates.
If you just constantly dump it than yes you’re going to have problems with it. I thas very high burst dps that heavily depletes the ammo reserves, or if you’re smart with it you can extend the reserve duration longer. The scavenger aura has worked fine for me with it.
you get this with the 25% extra ammo talent
This whole paragraph to me just says, “the Revolver is way overtuned right now.” Yes the Revolver is pretty much just a better boltgun atm, it is stupidly strong and in no world did it need the buffs it got this patch.
Give it another try. It’s better than you think it is.
Going that deep into the left tree is never worth it. Not even for a Laz gun. If a weapon needs that 25%, just use another weapon and take the Talents that are not a waste instead. Every single point spent in the bottom left tree is pure pain.
It really isnt better than anything around atm. All it does is lock you into executioners stance.
This is the Eviscerator discussion all over again. The Bolter is cool. It will always have a fandom just because it is a Bolter. It works somewhat. Its nowhere near as good as it should be for all the downsides it comes with.
Fatshark math is always a sight to behold. Wouldnt surprise me at all if something just doesnt get calculated the way it should.
I don’t run it with execution stance. And I disagree the 25% ammo is amazing for the reasons you stated earlier, alongside the suppression immunity. Pair that with the rending from the middle tree and it has far higher burst dps than a Revolver but much less sustained. My biggest problem with the bolter right now is the absolutely awful and janky ads that has been in the game since launch.
For example while I haven’t tested if Revolver can do the same, if you set up correctly you can kill bosses in 1 mag dump. It’s not practical for in game for the most part, but you can still do tons of damage to bosses or anything with it.
Again yes the Revolver is just better than it. Its basically an Archeotech pistol with how stupidly strong it is. But I do think the Bolter is a strong gun, especially after the nice buffs it got.
I played around with it a lot today (Auric-STG) and @Vaeneas basically echos my stance on it:
Burst damage is meh, you can shoot heads with a lot of other weapons (that are better at it), needs a lot of support from the tree to be viable, and ammo is scarce for it (bad ammo eco in general).
It’s viable, but you are better off running anything else. Even if you use the same talent tree you made specifically for the bolter there will be weapons performing way better with it.
the 25% is not great, is so far in the tree its almost worthless, not to mention its 25%, not 40% it previously was. One of the entire perks of being a veteran is you get a larger ammo pool. This terrible talent change has removed that and placed an essential part of veterans so far down of what should should be on the top.
Bolter is also trash, its damage does not make up for that. Its slow reload and swap speed make it essentially worthless for damnation. Not to mention again because veterans ammo pool is lower, its even worse. Plus there is the fact that executioner stance doesnt auto reload weapons. Which was frankly a very important factor for bolter builds.
Working Great for you is good for you, yet it is a vague statement.
When its working great? which difficulty? auric? which weapon?
how did you know that @Nish , @Vaeneas , and me we all mag dump? its no more pre patch 13, we dont get a free reload for our bolter and spam 30 rounds in a salvo, you are out of ammo you need to reload that gun, also scavenger is nerfed, you are telling me you lost your ammo and ammo on kill and your it didnt affect your playstyle from before patch 13?
not to mention even for dreg gunners and other elites and special it dont 1 tap. Also bolter damage modifier vs infested is 50%, so you are doing 50% damage vs poxbomber and hound, and we all know how poxhound pathfinding and animation is clunky, and got stun immunity when jumping over cover.
Damnation Auric Board missions including Maelstrom, pairs great with the Chainsword for horde clear.
I never used the auto reload. I prefered Bigger They Are for more ammo efficiency.
I’m going to be honest, if I’m going to talk about the Boltgun anymore I’m just going to make a thread for it. I guess it has a higher skill ceiling than I thought. I think people are jaded with the revolver atm.
Was testing out Executioner Stance Ability, i noticed the following. It either the calcuation is weird or its a bug, its only giving half of the damage buff to Executioner Stance Ability , while if both are on Executionar Stance + Marskman we are getting huge buff, the test was carried out with a bolter on Scab Rager.
Bolter
78% Damage Modifier
Damage Vs Flak Rager Weakspot
Weak Spot Damage vs Flak
834
100%
Weak Spot Damage with Executioner Stance
1121
134.40%
Exec Gives: 25% Base Damage & 25% Weakspot Damage
Weak Spot Damage With Exec + Marksman
1681
200%
Weak Spot Damage With Marksman only
1255
150.00%
Marskmen Gives: 50% Weakspot Power
First test to get the base value
second test is with Exec stance only, as in weakspot hit it should give 50% damage increase but we can see just 34% increase.
Third test is weakspot with both, Exec Stance and Marksmen (the bottom build upgrade)
Fourth test is without ulti but with marksmen
Bolter
78% Damage Modifier
Vs Scab Rager Non-Weakspot
Non Weakspot
598
100%
Non Weakspot with Executioner Stance
733
122.50%
This two tests show that the 25% base damage is there, we can find a 22% increase in damage.
This show that the 25% Weakspot damage with Executioner stance is either half there or calculation is weird.
this makes Mauler worst nightmare to sharpshooter, which their weakspot is heavier than normal armor, also weapons’ that meant not to be accurate as braced autoguns, auto pistol, would suffer hugely.
The piece of the puzzle you’re missing is that Fatshark does headshot damage and crit damage in a weird way that nobody else does. The +25% headshot damage from exe stance will only affect the bonus damage you’re getting from the headshot.
And here’s what the damage card says it should do on an unarmored target with the light 1:
If I hit this dreg shooter in the body (this is done with zero talents by the by) you can see that the listed bodyshot damage is correct.
But on a headshot you can see the listed damage is inaccurate.
Somehow, I am only getting an extra 20 damage from having both +12.5% headspot damage from Brutal Momentum and a +8% headspot damage perk. But 192 * 1.205 = 231.36 so where is the extra damage going.
The answer is that the game is not multiplying the entire 192 damage by +20.5% damage. Instead, it is looking at the bonus damage from the headshot and applying my headshot damage bonuses to that number. So first we need to isolate the amount of damage the headshot is adding by removing the 97 base damage, i.e. 95 damage. Then they game takes that 95 headshot damage and applies both Brutal Momentum and the perk to that damage then adds it to the base damage. So the calculation looks more like (95 * 1.205) + 97 = 211.475 which the display rounds up to 212.
Yeah i have noticed that with the 10% weakspot damage modifer in the bolter, it literarly gave only 6 points of damage.
YET , Marskman 50% Power to weakspot is working well, we are getting 50% extra damage, but when its “damage increase” we get some extra flakes or sprinkles.
so when they want it to be decent just add the word power, when want it to be bad, add the word damage.
Funny you mention the zealot.
I’ve made a brauto zalot build, which is much more effective (and fun) to play than anything i was able to achieve on vet.
Blazing piety affects your ranged weapon. Chastise still gives you 100% rend. That’s all i’ll say, the rest is for you to (hopefully) have fun.
