For now I only have played a few game but I would say that vet is still relevant and efficient and the keystone mostly work. The problem is more about the skilltree being less satisfying to build as you can’t really juggle in it and you have to sacrifice a lot to get to the keystone.
2 Likes
Thread title is pure hyperbole / insanity. Played a bunch of the new vet. It works. It’s still strong.
It is a FAIR CRITIQUE that the Vet Tree gives you far less flexibility than other trees, having ~20 more points, longer route to keystones, and requiring more investment in abilities/keystones. No question there’s less flexibility. A bunch of the ability/keystone nodes could have been compressed to enable more flexbility, eg: Why are ‘Relentless’ and ‘Enhanced Target Priority’ not simply part of ‘Executioner’s Stance’. Vet spends 4-5 points more than other classes to get ‘the necessities’ (filled out keystone/ability), leaving them with less flexibility.
It is NOT a fair critique that Vet is “nerfed to the ground”. I LOVE focus target, constantly buffing the team. Weapon specialist is good fun, Marksman’s Focus just buffs you for doing the thing you should be doing and regaining stacks isn’t hard. The keystones work. I’d argue that the Ability and Keystone nodes take far too many points to reach and fully upgrade and it leaves you without much build flexibility (especially compared to other classes), but Vet isn’t “Nerfed to the ground”.
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I would argue that it is especially good on high diff.
More targets to tag means higher uptime on the 12% dmg buff.
2 Likes
Its not written anywhere but if tagged target dies you will recive 1 stack.
Only time when you got less than 20% is if you tag a different target before previous is dead within 2 seconds. which is kinda sucks, but its not a big deal at all.
You can get above 20% most of the time.
If you rely on spam tagging to see stuff (which is not going to make it much worse), try using executioner stance instead.
Target down modifier will also regain more than 10% toughnes and stam most of the times
5 Likes
Fair resposne;
Terminology aside, the operative modifier (OM) feels underpowered on the Vet when compared to the others.
So going off the avrgs, you will pick up 4 on your way to abilites. (you will pick up more OM on the way to the bottom, but for sake of argument we will stick to 4 down to Abilites.)
Of the 4, your choice varries from
Vets OM:
+5% HP / +1 Stamina / +5% Move speed
+15 toughtness
+5% ranged / +5% HP / +10% Melee
+5% reload / +5% tough dmg reduce / +5% crit chance
Psyker OM:
+15 toughtness
-5% Peril / +5% tough dmg reduce
+5% tough dmg reduce / +10% tougth replenishment
5% Peril / +5% tough dmg reduce / +5% ranged
Ogryn OM:
+25 toughtness
+15 toughtness / +10% tough dmg reduce
+5% reload / +5% rending
+5% ranged / +5% HP / +10% heavy melee
Zealot OM:
+15 toughtness
+15 toughtness /+5% tough dmg reduce / +5% Melee
+15 toughtness / +5% tough dmg reduce / +1 Stamina
this path dependant you ahve to take 5melee then +5% Move speed
Look at what options you have for the Vet (remember this is ignoring pathing and compelety ignoring bottom pathing below abilites, both if included exacerbates the issue).
IMO, Vets options are way less impactful
Lets compare the first row.
Everyone other than Vet gets a significant boost to survivability.
+5% HP is a Curio T4 Perk, Stamina is a bad roll Blessing that NOBODY takes for Vet anyway and the Move speed is only useful in Low difficulty zones but not Damnation.
Second row.
Everyone class gets survivability, good!
Third row.
This is a mix up between DMG and Surivivabilty.
We have covered +5% HP. Range is somewhat good if you were to compare it “For the Emperor” Ability Modifier which offers 10+% melee dmg for 5s.
But the +10% melee is very good then (but you then have to get movement speed aura…)
Fourth row.
Reload speed is a bad role perk for weapons. Dmg reduce is good. Crit chance is good as well but you are on the melee side which isnt too meaningful in the end IMO.
So when considering the above, I feel that Vet has less surivability and dmg when it comes to OM. But we want to be constructive here. So how can we make this better?
Add more tougthness or toughtness dmg reduction nodes, a larger HP node, take away stamina and move speed for maybe a attack speed node, maybe even rendering. How ever its tuned, it should be better than either, move speed, stamina, 5 Hp, 5 Reload speed, 5 range dmg.
These nodes feel Taxing, as you have to take some underpowered nodes to try and get to the more meaningful passives.
tl;dr - Vet feels weak when comparing its Operative nodes to other classes, Regardless of pathing and any other nodes below abilites. If we includ those factors, vet feels even weaker.
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@Forsion
At the end of the day, it comes down to opportunity cost. We want build variety so having the shotgun one shot with a min-max build is good and deserved if you can make the playstyle work.
As with everything here, its about what works personally for you.
The reason I would suggest Revolver is better. If you keep the same tree pathing;
You one shot or sometimes two shot everthing alot faster and is less clunky as weapon.
But the tree pathing is too constricted for my playstyle.
This is what works for me
I have lots of survivability, picking up an extra 65+ toughness from the tree
I can two to three shot ogryns and oneshot most things.
I have good attack speed making Powersword horde clear alot easier
Especially when there is a pack of crushers, I can easily take them all on at the same time.
I only play Auric Damnation or Auric Maelstrom
2 Likes
For the most part, they’re meant to be small, incremental bonuses, so I don’t see why being equivalent to a T4 curio perk is a bad thing
What’s wrong with stamina? I think the value of stamina depends greatly on other parts of your build (Deadshot, Run and Gun blessing, your choice of melee, the stamina regen delay talents)
On the whole though, I see what you mean. Psyker options are a bit naff as well. Vet choices cover most, if not all, possible options but it’s spread quite thin as a result. I forget how much HP Vet gets as base, so I don’t know how strong those 5% HP nodes are.
I agree that they’re meant to be small incremental bonuses.
Im talking about the equivalence of what is already available.
Why IMO +5% is not good, base hp for vet is 150. so thats an bonus of 7.5hp
The node below it is 15+ toughness. Base toughness is 100 so thats a practical 15% boost.
You can get a bad role curio Blessing +15% Toughness vs t4 hp perk
Regarding stamina, its not that meaningful, Its very situational imo.
Stamina regeration speed would be more vailable than the extra bar which can offer one more push, or a second of sprinting and using deadshot.
If you were going to have it, also doesnt make sense for it to be in the certain path of the tree
Left side of the tree, you probably need to sprint more to get back to your team as well as use it for deadshot.
Right side, you are more melee focus so the need to push is more important as well as your other stamina releated passives.
I think this shows the lack of thoughtfulness towards the overall playstyle the trees could offer. Thusly why I think Vets tree is underpowered compared to others.
No doubts revolver have better damage and less clunky to use.
But Agripinaa is just more ammo efficient, which allows me to not rely on survivalist, and use other stuff.
Will your setup work fine without survivalist?
I originally used it on my melee infiltrator build and it worked just fine for what i needed, Only difference is that you got to hit heads, which is more fun than a burden to me.
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Yeah it would work fine without survivalist.
You actually path from Krak grenade straight down. Giving you an extra point
Which you can then use on the keystone Focus target
You do become more ammo hungry but you are less reliant on ammo in the first place.
Any large target that would take 2 to 3 shots can be killed in one with your nades. which recharge. But your team also gets an overall dmg boost due to focus target. Meaning you are more ammo efficient as a team. Or dont get the keystone and get the 5% gain nade on elite kill to have more nade sustain
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The 12% buff yes, the 32% buff no, which was my point.
Ah, I see now.
I think +10 base HP could be a reasonable alternative, since it would allow you to scale with curios (while accounting for the fact that HP curio grants higher % than toughness curio), so you could gain 10 - 35 HP for 1 - 2 points (going all in with HP curios would bring you to 245 HP, if I math’ed correctly).
Re: stamina, I don’t think those situations are uncommon. Personally, given the choice between 1 stamina and an incremental boost to regen, I feel like I’d prefer the +1, but incremental bonuses in my mind are in the 5/10/15% range typically which would probably feel a bit lacklustre for stamina regen. It’s position in the tree, I don’t think is an issue - it’s valuable for both left/right, so the centre seems like a fair spot.
In saying that, I feel like the same could be said for a lot of Operative Modifiers positions. Like with the Zealot, why is all the toughness on the left? Ultimately, there are only so many places on the tree for them, and and multiple bonuses may have equal claim to a given spot; that, or it provides a way to balance the tree left-to-right e.g. Zealot has some crit on both the left and the right branches of the tree; Ogryn has some ranged nodes mixed in with the melee branch and vice versa
The reload speed being bumped to 10% would be nice; I feel like 20 - 30% is a sweet spot for reload speed (where you can feel the difference, and diminishing returns hasn’t become too punitive). At 10%, you could combine it with the T4 Perk to just dip into that sweet spot, or with a reload talent to get in/around 25% less time to reload.
5% ranged damage feels fair, IMO, since it’d be consistent with other classes, although the Ranged/Melee split on the +5% Damage nodes feels a bit unnecessary. Rending, I’d probably leave that out since Vet already has a few sources of Rending IIRC (and it’s easily one of the strongest damage bonuses in the game IMO).
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Whinge whinge whinge. I just played Vet last night and destroyed auric missions. Still the most op career.
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Interesting, I suppose stamina being valuable is soley based on playstyle.
I personally wouldnt want it if given the choice, as I wouldnt want stamina on either my weapon perks nor as a curio blessing. But if someone could make stamina build defining , so mote it be.
For the Zealot comparison, you may have not considered Zealots base stats
Suchas, Base HP is 200 and Base Toughness is a measly 70. Zealots can gain % HP recoup so the large HP and Low Toughness is balanced around this.
To why many toughness nodes are towards the centre rightside, is mostlikely due to that playstyle archetype. Lots of wounds, low hp, with hp recovery and reduced dmg taken from wound to next wound and increased dmg per wound missing.
You could view zealots pathing as, left agression, middle defensive, right sneaky avoidance.
I think the other classes OM are better, comparatively to vets offerings.
They either have better dmg reduction or survivability.
Psyker peril reductions is very valuable. It means you can have greater dmg sustainability. Being WAY stronger than 5% ranged dmg or reload speed that the vet gets IMO. Ogryn OM flat toughness nodes lack in comparrison to what you can get with Vet, but Ogryn passive support regeneration, recoup and reduciton way more than vets can (unless you play VoC).
At the end of the day, OM wouldnt be such an issue if we had better Passive to go with it.
Lets look at, (what is my opinion) to be some of the bad passive you can get as a vet:
“Charismatic” +50% aura radius
A passive that helps being far away from your team
“Vanguard” -20% sprint cose
Another passive that helps you get back to your team or run away from enemies
“Catch a Breath” Toughness replenish when no nearby enemies
Requires you to have no enemies near you, for it to be even more useful, require no coherancy as it becomes ur sole replenish
“Covering Fire” Range kills agains enemies near teammates, teammates gain toughness and dmg
This isnt that bad but still encourages you to not be near your team, because if you were and theres enemies within 5m, then you probably have your melee weapon out already.
“kill zone” range dmg boost when no enemies nearby
Can be situationally but harder to get at Auric damnation
Fatshark could be more creative with the passives and also encourage better teamplay.
Imagine a passive allowing you to shoot through your teammates.
Then again, I mostly use revlover that can do that anyways
I guess they need to Nerf Vet more as you find it “STILL” to be the most OP
Or maybe they should buff the other class to make it more inline with Vet…
Thx for the input, nice use of conjecture
5 Likes
Vet tree is a bit constricted, but I still think they’re very very potent. Still, with Darktide truly being a hybrid combat game (very close to 50/50 in my opinion, although very nearly all failed runs end in melee trub times), I can’t agree that they’re the most OP class. Everyone else seems to have more tools to help them be successful in (or nope out of) melee combat.
3 Likes
Any competent player can stomp this game with minimal gear and minimal skills, that aint no measure of fun!
This was the skill tree to finish the Veteran, and they screwed it up! Its lackluster, boring, no cool toys or wildly transformative talents to switch up how you play. They aren’t giving us the tools, and instead are filling up the tree with… filler.
Its like opening a massive present on Xmas to find it 90% filled with packaging and a Snickers sitting in the bottom.
13 Likes
This can also be framed as helps with your team getting far away from you - if someone (over) extends, they won’t lose the benefit s of your coherency.
I feel like this was useful (once upon a time, at least) as a way to hold your own against groups of ranged enemies in mid/long range engagements. I think it would be good to have a talent that does this, but Catch a Breath isn’t really it right now 
Same goes for Kill Zone. Could be transformed to have TDR against ranged damage, maybe?
Conceptually, I like this talent, but I don’t know how useful it is. I feel like there’s plenty of situations where an enemy is bearing down on an ally and you’re outside melee range, but I think it’ll depend on the specific situation as to whether this talent will get value. If you’ve got Ragers closing on a teammate and a Plasma Gun in hand, that seems like a situation where you will easily proc it, or a shotgun blast into a mixed horde for a quick buff, for example.
Does anyone know if Charismatic interacts with the threat reduction from Infilitrate’s babby node Low Profile? Like, I could be benefiting from lower threat even further away? Probably not.
I really need to play around more to get a feel for what Charismatic can do for a team…seems like it could do a lot more than it gets credit for, but I don’t truly know the mechanics of it/auras/coherency.
I dont believe so, as Low profile doesnt have any modifiers to do with Aura (which is also coherency)
@Dumlefudge
That being said, I use to always pair Charismatic with VoC on the old tree, as the larger replenish radius isnt helpful for me but for the teammate who got CC out from the group.
But having me choose between Charismatic or Confirmed Kill. I end up going with latter, better synergy with Born leader