Tbh, I’m tired of this philosophy of FS.
“We do it all at once, so we only have to do it once and it will be better than what you can dream of”.
And then it’s a nightmare in every aspect, old bugs come out of the woodwork, new stuff doesn’t even work, balancing is out of the window, etc.
The QUALITY of their work is abysmal. If I was making this many errors in my job and repeat them on top of it this many times, I’d been kicked out real fast.
Oh, and then they want money for it…
How many times was this tried by now?
How many times did it work as intended?
How was it with the definition of INSANITY?
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Patchie today?
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You should try more superlatives like “Cataclysmic”, or “Apocalyptic job”. I’m pretty sure repeating it will make it true =p
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Gotta save something for S2.
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You’re saying that people in general want microtransactions instead of DLC’s ? I’ve never heard this from anyone.
People criticise DLC’s because of obvious issues. Like with WoM… major part of DLC are the Weaves which are horrible bugged, unbalanced experience, that’s not something ppl want to buy, then you have Cata, which is too hard for many players and gating high difficulty behind DLC is another problem which ppl don’t like, next…Bestmen… that faction was so broken on release and mulitple weeks/over month, that people who got DLC actually disabled it just to avoid the Beastmen… and lastly weapons, which are great imo. Oh and 5 levels…lol… (completely pointless, aside from adding more issues in terms of balance)
So for the WoM the value was new weapons basically, that’s kinda it, everything else was either super bugged or not fun. And on top of that they changed many core mechanics and pissed a loooot of people. As a bonus.
The sales would surely be very different if the 2.0 didn’t screw up multiple core mechanics, and the DLC design was actually good and properly tested before releasing.
Which is basically what I’m trying to say.
What weapons ? I don’t remember any new weapons in SoB.
Weekly quests lol, for recolored illusions ? I could create 1000000 new weapon skins this way just by randomly changing colors. That is not new stuff. I can have any color of weapon I want on modded realm just by using simple mod. There is zero work needed for “creating” something like that. And most of the other skins were similar situations, some looking super aweful because even the color change wasn’t good. There were even memes about it.
So I’m honest about the content, all there actually was, was the 2 maps and literally few interesting recolors. The body armours in SoB was mostly really bad recolors.
Yea, this one was good. I would be curious to see what kind of money this DLC made compared to the SoB and WoM. But still this thread was before the actual release it seems from the tone of the post so… like people were hyped for WoM also, before the release…
I agree. But it’s still kinda PR speech. And they are not fixing major problems… they can talk all they want but unless they are actually doing stuff… it means nothing…
Like the W115 someone posted again… it’s fu… months after release and it still has game breaking problem with not having enough enemies… this is example of stuff that should have been fixed in week 1 max ! Same for other weaves like W94… the sound crash fest. And many other problems.
It would certainly be great if it suddenly got much better, but I think I already lost hope after the year of hoping.
In that case they should rather do “normal” pvp. Letting people fight each other with normal heroes, not with vermin. Because it will be impossible to balance, you won’t be able to changed gear on vermin etc. All it’s going to be, if it’s executed well as you say, is some sideway fun mod/mutator. No way is this going to bring massive amount of people that will play it long term. It will be short attraction.
And again, you just can’t start doing big project like this when your main house is on fire. First you go and stop the fire. Now we are in situation that fire is burning for months and people are running out of the building.
Yea and everyone who actually played it, saw this, and they still pushed it, thats the same frickin crap over and over they just can’t learn it seems. This is the perfect example what is wrong here.
The stagger was horrible, then they provided some info on it in few replies, which later got shadow changed and nobody actually knew what was going on and stuff couldn’t even be tested cos modded realm wasn’t available… like that was just nightmare. In the end (after people got pissed and left…) I think it’s fine, but it adds more complexity that people didn’t really ask for and I would guess most players still don’t understand how exactly it works. Because they would have to take time and basically read articles about it or get mods and test stuff on modded… nobody does that, except for super hardcore players.
And about fixed weaves… ofc they should have changed it, and I told them as with other things that this will be horrible if they don’t, boom they didn’t, it crashed and burned super hard. If they are not going to learn from this, then I don’t know from what else they will.
Absolutely, when I brought this up multiple times they said something like “nah, we’re not doing that”.
It is such an obvious thing to do. Because people with multiple thousands of hours can see most issues clearly fast, there is no need to test something for weeks. I remember telling Tom on stream about the temp HP screw up and he was like “Maybe you need to test it more, give it some time” and I am thinking “What are you talking about this is fuc…ed, I can’t get any temp at all no matter what talent I get on FK, I don’t need any more time to see that this is stupid” same goes for a lot of other issues.
They could get team of hardcore ppl for free, to do all the testing. For frickin free…
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I don’t see nowhere in the quote that I said that. They’re trying to find another way to support the game while fixing an issue that was “Maps are available to everyone so there’s no point buying this dlc”. Exactly this one. Not another. Not trying to guess why WoM was not on par. They’re just finding a new model.
People wanting that or not can’t be determined until they actually use it. It can certainly works (as others game prove).
And as I already pointed, you are indeed right, they ALSO do criticise thoses DLC because of others issues. But this is an issue that still exist, and that was criticised.
ALSO being the keyword here.
I did agree that it could have been better, but that doesn’t mean they can’t adress others issues as well =p
My bad ! You can forget that !
Mercenary “recolor” and hat is still my favorite in the whole game =p
They are actually doing stuff.
https://steamdb.info/app/552500/depots/
You can see the “stable_release” branch being updated each day (or 2 days) since the last patch. So there’s indeed a proof of activity. Doesn’t mean 115 will be fixed (and it really needs it), but there’s actual work going on.
It won’t suddenly get much better, but the fact that they’re aware of it, and taking this kind of solution show that they are at least trying to get better. I won’t say season 2 will be perfect, but this decision is a step in the good direction, for the game itself (trying to prevent the lack of new content for 9 months), and for the technical stuff that is behind it (reduced amount of content at the same time, milestones, etc).
Fortnite didn’t make “normal” pvp, they made battle royale pvp. Also, L4D2 doesn’t feature normal pvp, it’s exactly the same pvp that v2 will feature (specials vs heroes) so we do know it works. Even if it indeed you’re right, it will never be balanced (L4D2 is not balanced as well though)
L4D stats proves otherwise.
People with thousands hours can see drawback pretty fast, but they usually can’t find “new ways” to play as the current way of play is pleasing them. So they’ll say usual stuff that with a better crafting system, and new maps, thousands of players will come and play again. Which is pretty much wrong. (which doesn’t mean a better crafting system is not good for the game, but it won’t attract as much as a new mode or a kind of replayable end game)
Seasons were a mistake. And as things go, it’s probably not going to be a mistake that’ll be survivable twice. Hope the eggs put in that pvp basket pay off big.
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No patchie today it seems. 
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Even if DLC is just the maps, it’s basically supporting the dev, which is the same way how Microtransactions work. With micros it is also about looking good in addition to supporting dev, but in VT2, I can’t see the char, so I don’t really care. It’s not like in Path of Exile, where I want the char to look good because I look at it all the time.
They would have to make really really cool micros for weapons, like new rune models. That would take quite a bit of work.
I get what you are saying, just stressing that 2 DLC were really bad and 1 was decent but featured old content that significant amount of fans and players already knew. Which is not ideal sample size to base decisions on.
Lack of new content has nothing to do with seasons. You don’t need seasons to produce content. There is no connection. They could release more stuff and tweak things, balance weapons without any seasons.
And in same way seasons do not guarantee some new amazing content, they could fail even more with seasons, we will see 
but I think you’re being too optimistic.
Well BR is normal pvp on big scale.
Yea and because it won’t be balanced it wont’ be something that is played long term, I don’t see how anyone is enjoying getting rekt. Like sure I will try gas rat few times, but that’s kinda it. Same for other stuff. And if sneakyBoi is really fun then it will be like assassins vs heroes 
I just doubt, it will have the replayability, which is something they need to focus on, if they want to keep working on this, they need game that has a lot of replayability, lot of options, mods, mutators, maps, frickin different lighting in maps etc. Not another thing that will be fun for few weeks at best. Versus does not fit into the game well, it doesn’t add anything to the core gameplay. And as many pointed out, hosts will prolly ragequit like crazy in Versus.
Reason why I still play VT2 is modded realm, if there was no modded realm I would not play this anymore. I did like 400 h on official and then started moving onto modded because there wasn’t really much to do on official.
Are there numbers on this ? Like how many ppl did play the mode when it came out and how many are playing it month later ? 2 , 3 , 6 months later ? Also what is the playerbase compared to VT2 player base ? How good is the L4D Versus mode ?
I agree fixing crafting won’t attract new players, but the thing is… if you get new players and have this sh*tty systems and bugs and mess everywhere… they won’t stay.
You need great product first, then marketing. If you want to stay in the game long term.
Otherway around works only when you don’t give a sh*t about long term.
And that is what it looks like here, it’s always “we have this new whatever” hype hype hype, but the baisc stuff that needs to be solid is not, so ppl come, see the mess, leave.
That is one of main problems here. Nothing is finished, it’s all half baked mess. And they keep adding more half baked stuff. Just no… stop it. Fix the current stuff first, then create something new and hype it… and actually release it fully baked, otherwise this is going to 0 players in the future, if it continues on this half-baking trajectory.
It’s like small kid not being able to pay attention, to sit down for 10 minutes and finish single task.
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I have question, where are our weekly streams ?
Big Balance Beta had an entirely separate download and environment and this resulted in a much better end product. Instead of using the entire PC customer base to bug fix for console releases, use the available BETA branch to test ideas before launching them to everyone. In fact, you could have an entire experimental branch ALWAYS THERE that is really buggy and messy to test ideas without impacting the whole game. Update the experimental branch once a week with whatever tweaks have been done that week and players there have the knowledge it’s likely to crash, be imbalanced and generally be a WIP. This might have seen WoM be an entirely different product rather than the catastrophe we had with 2.0.
Just a beta branch would be nice though.
Seasons might be good if they show a consistent steady step towards fixing so much broken stuff. Having the Weekly Event Modifiers in Twitch now makes the weeklies even more obsolete. A step backwards for the weeklies and a problem it twitch. Getting the “Stay near your homies” modifier in Twitch mode is instant death for at least 2 people usually - so the Weekly Modifiers are disabled in Twitch. ergo - pointless including them when they get disabled by virtually everyone I’ve played Twitch mode with.
@Froh The fixing of Crafting, Deeds, RNG chests, and even new maps aren’t too big a problem in isolation and you’re right - simply fixing crafting won’t suddenly have a big influx of new players. Map attract new players, long-term broken systems turn them away pretty damn fast.
The reworked Wizards Tower with the hidden books to open the portal had me revisit VT1 and stay for probably a hundred hours attempting that one MAP on CATA. Fixing Quests and Contracts and adding the Shrine of Solace FIXED the issues with VT1 rerunning HoM into a coma. New seasons should FIX things, and I have little faith they will - in fact I suspect they’ll just add more problems.
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Which stats are you looking at? Yes there are plenty of people that play versus. An equally large to greater, dependent on time of day, number of people (according to various room trackers anyways) play campaigns. I think any comparisons made between to two are, while unavoidable, equally unfavorable.
I suspect there’s some big unplaytested muck that’s going to be thrown at players for their season 2 which will break the game even more than it already is. In twoish weeks we’ll see if the amount of people curious to see if the game is fixed, whatever that means, will stay past the first spike in playerbase that happens as people cautiously prod to see if they enjoy playing the game again. Else we’ll see if I’ll get the displeasure of watching a youtube analysis on how FS killed their own game in 2 years.
If you’re concerned about people spoiling stuff… Your previous betas never had this issue to my knowledge. Also since it’s password protected Hedge could pick and choose who he thinks is trustworthy.
This wouldn’t be like your internal internal test group. But you will need to pick critics or this whole endeavor will be basically pointless.
I mean they did that with their internal discord group and look where that ended.
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The entire reason BBB worked was because it was opt in for the entire community. Make an inclusive event and all you’ll get are people who want to get invited to the next inclusive event and avoid rocking the boat.
Well. It also helped that they actually USED FEEDBACK from the BBB before it hit live. Some things weren’t perfect and had to be adjusted, but overall it was a net gain. Perfect balance between dev intent and community contribution and later, reception. Frankly I don’t understand the logic of making changes that will impact an entire community based on the perception of any FEW individuals.
That’s not how c o m m u n i t y feedback works. At least not how feedback works that works.
Well that’s just my opinion anyways. Frankly I’m stopping by because 3 of my most played had terrific dev knowledge bombs dropped on their community and I wanted to see what FS was working with lately. I’ll be back to see how season 2 fares as I imagine a lot of people will and if I’m not on about it or I can’t convince my friends to return than it was fun while it lasted I guess.
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Completely agree but @Argonaut14 was also talking about not yet released stuff and the problem of FS not getting that what they are doing is not at all in line with what anybody wants hence long in advance testing. So I build upon the spoiler problem.
I’d really not like to be dragged into this conversation again to be vilified, but again, but since you’ve @‘ed me; as I’ve mentioned before; I’m happy to answer questions on this. Fire away.
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I suppose my point was summed up well by @Rumeht in that the level of feedback/changes in the Bbb eventually aligned what the community expected with what the devs delivered. Winds of magic was a fundamental shock to those in beta and to those in the community when it went live.
I really don’t think we need to dig up the corpse of the ‘secret discord group’ to give it another thrashing.
Spoilering an expansion(winds of magic) is one thing - getting effective feedback about 2.0.x*is quite another.
My vision was something like:
Here’s a beta branch with our revamped ideas on how deeds work. Drop in if you want to have a look and give feedback.
Players download the seperate branch to test changing something already in game and the deva can act on feedback in a virtually live environment.
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If I may add something regarding VT2 and WoM that particularly struck me: the decision to limit a difficulty level to DLC owners only. I bought WoM out of principle - despite the fact that my animosity towards weaves topped at the end of beta and stayed constant and that I wanted not to buy it out of another principle - but many players haven’t and this approach further segments player base. I have always appreciated when games like this didn’t discriminate a lot between DLC owners and the others as far as the gameplay goes.
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