So if cata was added to every dlc (you know people already supported FS hard - collector edition anyone?) or in an entirely separate one I would see it as completely legitimate.
But to throw it in this one…
It just screams: “I’m a last ditch effort”
It’s quite obvious that not buying WoM to protest would happen.
Cata just has nothing to do with WoM and was one of the most desired additions to the game (alongside new maps, better crafting and deed update - except for maps can you imagine to sell them legitimately?).
Aside that it can be argued that cata would have been perfect to gain good will after never doing anything to reward the community for sticking with them for so long, buying dlc, overlooking broken promises and ever returning/staying bugs.
It’s usually considered that decent developers do not sell core parts of a game as dlc.
If you take a look around you know the limit was clearly breached this time (dough recovery seems in sight) and as for this, that can hardly be seen as anything else than a greedy insult, it will go down in the book.
WoM was advertised as a big addition to the game, an expansion. Looking at others games expansion like Reapers of Souls, we can compare a bit.
New levels (lvl 31->35) were available for all. Usually, an expansion does gate players without it and with it by preventing players without an expansion to actually be able to reach thoses furthers levels.
New weapons (or let’s say options) are available for expansion owner only, as in all others expansions.
Same for new enemies.
New area (dark omens) and new endgame (weaves) are also available for owners only. This is pretty close to Act V and rifts from Diablo 4.
Cataclysm is in a weird place. It would look like the latter difficulties of d3. As it even keep the same vocabulary with Cataclysm 2 and Cataclysm 3 (Torment X … for d3) reachable in the weaves or using mods. Thoses latter difficulties are only available with RoS because of the level increase that, again, is not available for all base game player in d3.
Cataclysm still lacks better reward, so technically it doesn’t give any advantage to players owning the dlc.
Also, the dlc would be less interesting without having cataclysm in it. For 20usd, would you buy the dlc if there was no cataclysm in it ?
If the answer is no, then you do know why Cataclysm is locked behind it.
That’s a joke and most people wish they didn’t do that (the opposite of what is to be aimed for).
All the rest:
Yes there is one map, beastmen and new weapons in this dlc.
This has noting to do with my point. This expansion that while not necessarily the hugest imaginable still brings new enemies unlike the common dlc.
Don’t know what you’re confused about with cata it’s another layer of difficulty to this game yes without rewards which does not matter in this discussion.
Say no developer ever. Developers needs to eat, so yeah, apart from the developers who only sell cosmetics dlc, all expansion do have “core parts of a game” in them.
But look at the bright future then. If the cosmetics dlc do work well from fatshark, you won’t have to worry about others “core parts of a game” being available in a dlc again.
Hey hey hey!
Just because you have any kind of businesses does not mean that you have to treat your long time customers like trash on the basis that you need to eat!
You can sell decent stuff and remember (I know it’s hard):
Please Froh stop it argue reasonably read what others said patience is running out around here.
The problem is that you should make interesting a DLC thanks its contents… and not locking a part of main game behind it.
This is a bad move because developers said to us: “You could pay a little less and you could buy only what you wanted… but nope. You must pay a lot to buy things you don’t want”. Like if I was forced to buy also bananas while I wanted only apples.
Cata is a fundamental part of the game. Players still play and buy DLC even if there are broken promises and old bugs. Just release Cata for free.
Then you can do a dlc with beastmen + dark omens + weapons… and a SEPARATE dlc for weaves.
This is basically the good principle of any dlc/expansion and I couldn’t agree more with it.
Now here is something I have to point out.
While yes weaves and the rest are rater separate as well but the beastmen this time are a concrete part of the scripted weaves (Note this point I’m making here is utterly destroyed if they where random only or leader-boards weren’t a thing or or or) but you could go down the dlc for dlc route.
I think this is totally right when you’re so dedicated to this game that you got the skill for cata you probably buy the dlcs anyway cause it seems that you love the game .
And I think it’s good that you don’t get better chest then on legend as well .
When you’re going qp legend you get so many ppl that just want to get carryt cause they want the loot but got like no skill at all especially on xbox where you got not that large skilled player base in this game…
And imo the paywall on this is not very high I mean c’mon 20 bugs is not that much money for endcontet for a game you play hundreds of ours with…
I do agree that cataclysm could have been available to all.
But it’s not ‘the core game’, it doesn’t answer the same rules as the others difficulties, and does not give enhanced rewards.
It’s also already done, so it can’t really be changed. When you buy a product and half of what you buy becomes available for free, this won’t make buyers happy.
So instead of wanting to change something that can’t really be changed (let’s be a bit honest here), focus on improving what we have.
I do read. So if cata was added to every dlc, why did my more expensive winds of magic dlc did lose a content I paid for, having all others dlc as well.
Making a dlc is not treating your customers like trash.
On the core part of the game, what you miss is Cataclysm was not a core part of the game.
It was not in the core game to begin with. If you treat it as a core part of the game then every expansion of every game so far is a core part of the game as they usually add to the story directly. Act V is a core part of the story D3 as it is the final act of d3 and it is behind the expansion.
When Sh*t hit the fan. Sometimes you can’t just ignore it and improve the rest you have to get down and dirty.
Granted it wasn’t the intent, so was nothing before or after it doesn’t change what happened and since improvement is not in sight well…
I what? Sry do not compute.
Since it is a core of V1 it’s naturally a core of V2 as well + other reasons already stated.
But I already granted that they could have sold it but it needed to be separated as it simply does not belong into any single dlc except it’s own (or all as the logical reverse).
Indeed, I could have been more clear. What I say is that Cataclysm doesn’t answer the same rules as the others difficulty (threat level, numbers of specials at once, increasing rewards etc) and is not a ‘core part’ of the game. Explained right after.
Now I don’t see them removing cataclysm from this specific dlc for the reasons stated. It is too late.
Long answer:
Did you pay for V1?
If yes then problem of double charge exists.
But they explained that the engine upgrade made it necessary to put additional work in to transfer them over.
Selling the BtU maps came with it’s own share of controversy and giving out a V1 dlc for free as dmg control also isn’t exactly smooth play either.
These are all things they should have handled with care but well didn’t. Fairness wasn’t exactly thrown under the bus but got it’s toes rolled over.
Since I’m the one losing out here and see that maps simply are worth it. I tend to greatly overlook these.
I’m actually going to elaborate on Cataclysm being a core of Vermintide:
Vermintide for me and many others stands for and has established it self as a game of extreme (and fun) endgame challenge.
Vermintide one didn’t feature such a long progression. So the part of honing your skill and beating ever greater challenges became a thing among the fan-base. Stormvermin mutation and deathwish but also Onslaught don’t exist “just cause”. And if a dev want’s to keep up respect for this at least large part of their fan-base he isn’t going to lock what they once had (and only is a thing because raising Legend difficulty would not be taken well by others) intentionally or unintentionally in another dlc just to ensure some sales.
When they made Vermintide 2, they mentioned they cut Easy out as a difficulty and Legend is considered the new Cataclysm. Players wanted more challenge(that isn’t modded realm) so they introduced a step above that in Vermintide 2 and called it Cataclysm. Legend is still harder than Vermintide 1 Cataclysm, believe it or not. In fact, the two games play pretty differently despite one being a sequel to the other and it’s odd that people compare them as much as they do.
Vermintide 2 can still be amped up, whether you own Winds of Magic or not. You have deeds and Twitch. I understand where you’re coming from, but all the elements and more of the challenge exist in Vermintide 2, regardless of ownership of Winds of Magic. WoM just takes it even further.
Deeds: I could write a book about the problems with deeds and I won’t waste either of our time by insinuating that you don’t understand the problem with them either. An issue that FS is aware of given that they’ve expressed a willingness to rework that system at some undisclosed point in the future likely to be after this game is dead and vermintide 3 is about to come out.
Twitch 2.0 Pretty good. Even if it’s not remotely comparable to the structure generally involved in an actual changing of a base difficulty setting in both expectations and consistency. Regardless of that, it’s pretty good sure.
Cataclysm
No. It’s upwards to an entire hour to fill out a QP lobby some days. Secondly, they didn’t shy away from forcing crap on the entire community before with players getting sucked into the DLC maps against their will regardless of if they had the DLC purchased/enabled or not. There’s no reason cataclysm couldn’t work on at least those same rules for private matching.
But it doesn’t at all. Good grief.
Everybody can do this song and dance to their hearts content but at a point Cata flat out won’t be puggable anymore, which removes half of the value from WoM as a dlc product. Better to head that off and improve the functionality of player inclusion in that mode before the product becomes any less desirable than it already is in the eyes of a cautious buyer.
Well, deeds are great, but needs rework. Some modifiers are not that interesting, and you ether have lots of champions, recruit deeds that you’ll never do, or you’re kinda forced to “swap deeds modifiers” in QP, so you can have at least the same reward as a QP AND be able to play DLC maps.
So 3 things refrain deeds from being great instead of okay :
Lack of modifier choice and some modifiers needs rework (as well as the rewards that are linked to it)
Randomly given without any way to get others
Does not explore dlc maps for dlc owners (without deed swapping)
So you propose to remove the value from the dlc upfront, by getting Cataclysm out of this dlc. Now will you react if all weapons from bogenhafen and ubersreik would be available to all besides the fact that you bought thoses dlc as a player and a customer ?
