There were no Bogenhafen weapons. Nitpicking aside, as an owner of all 3 DLCs I have absolutely no issue with Cata being released for free. The more obvious option though would be to allow people to buy it on its own for much cheaper than WoM.
Yeah, but you can understand it removes some of the features that makes WoM sold, or am I the only one that think that WoM will sell less if you remove one of the feature linked to the dlc ?
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Thatâs a problem with the DLC then⌠Thereâs a reason itâs sitting at 29% on steam and locking Cata isnât going to make it sell more. At this point, I think weaves should really just be removed from WoM and sold separate. You might have a better chance selling the DLC as a faction and weapon expansion. But, then Weaves probably wonât sell at all.
They can still turn this around and surprise us. Move the essence crafting to the base game, vaults/chests etc only drop skins for weapons now. A new player can now have a full % built weapon without having to grind for 100-500 hours to get the one they want. It would also open up new breakpoints, as you can put like 6% into skaven and then the rest into Chaos or crit, etc. It allows you to customize so much more.
Make Weaves a QP mode where you donât have to grind 160 weaves in order. Just pick your difficulty and go have fun. Maybe you donât have time for a 20-30 minute adventure map and just want to do a quick 10 min weave. Get rid of the leader boards⌠Or at least just have them for speed running and highest character level. No one cares about the god damn weave clear list, at least not anyone I know. It just invites cheaters and the entire weave season idea is a bad investment in my opinion. Get rid of the scripted nonsense, make them random and a new quick play mode as I said earlier. At least then theyâll be fun and the Devs can work on other things like fixing talents, weapons, new maps and bugs instead of wasting time trying to make scripted challenges for a minority of the player base. Most of whom Iâve asked are just doing it for the portraitsâŚ
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On separating a dlc :
- When you separate options from a dlc, all dlc will say less separately. Making each mode dead-er than it is.
- By bundling, itâs customer friendly, and if a mode doesnât interest you, youâre not prevented to play it occassionaly with a friend (which you will be if you donât own it :p).
- Again, itâs too late to change an already existing dlc by separating it in several. This is just not a realistic solution. And it makes the whole game less attractive to new players as well (who will see 20 dlc instead of 3).
Now on the life of the game.
- Cataclysm is made for long time players. DLC-gating it is a good way to prevent new players to see it at a medium term goal (where you see them rushing the access to legend diff for example when they are far from ready).
- Long term players that do not want to buy any dlc is kinda problematic, if you want this game to continue being worked, you have to put up some money in it at various time. And this is far from the most expensive dlc or game ever.
- Cataclysm was also made to not really catter to QP players (that was said during beta explicitely, when I told them explicitely that QP players will have a hard time, and that could be an issue). In terms of difficulty, it is thought to be played in premade.
-> Therefore, Cata shouldnât be treated as another difficulty as it is some sort of challenge.
-> Players will have to pay for new stuff one way or another (here, it is one way, and in the future weâll see one other way : Cosmetics dlc).
-> And WoM, thanks to seasonnal weaves and new maps benefitting from cataclysm will earn more appeal âif all goes wellâ (which can happen or not, but that doesnât mean itâs a bad solution to keep it as it is).
I doubt that FS is going to change anything about the WoM DLC. The simple reason is the protuct value. Even though it would be better for the game to make things like Cata difficulty publicly available, removing it from the DLC and making it free would probably anger a lot of people who already bought the DLC since it would lower its value (which is what FS is afraid of imo).
I personally wouldnât mind, but to be completely honest, Iâm not really sure why people keep arguing about this. Is it really such a problem to buy a 17⏠DLC if you enjoy the game (and I assume you do if you want to play Cata)? Sure, the value is not all that great given the fact that Weave mode is not really popular, but to me, this is one of few Warhammer games that I enjoy and donât mind supporting.
Some people may say that the 17⏠is too much for what you are getting, which is a fair point, but then again⌠Vermintide isnât infested with nowadays-so-popular-$-mechanics and I think that paying 17⏠is not that much if it keeps the game going.
Just stop trying to ride the free-train and pay for what you like so it can keep getting better.
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I mean the core game is the campaign. There is nothing wrong with Legend difficulty, it needs enough skill and experience, but Vermintide is very loved⌠there are players with +2000 hours: an higher difficulty was needed⌠but if you lock it behind a paywall, you are literally locking the most active part of your community. Itâs legit? Yep. Itâs fair? Most of us arenât agree.
When you buy a product and half of what you buy becomes available for free, this wonât make buyers happy.
Iâm none⌠but if you want listen my opinion, I would be happy. At least I could play it with my friends ^^
Thatâs a problem then⌠WoM is being described as the âend gameâ, with seasons which will require the Devs to customise the weave maps. Meanwhile Weaves are extremely poorly received and would be a waste of Dev resources in my opinion. The simple solution is to make them a QP mode, perhaps to get tokens for the cosmetic shop? Then pour resources into things the community actually universally wants. Such as bug fixes, deed rework, maps and balance fixes (talents, weapons,etc).
At this point, Iâd rather all work on weaves was cancelled and they instead focused on verses mode. At least that might actually be funâŚThatâs not to say weaves canât be fun, they can, they just need a lot of work.
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They could split beastmen⌠I mean DLC A: you get dark omens, weapons and beastmen into campaign; DLC B: you get weaves and beastmen into weaves. Could it work? 
Weaves were poorly received because of balance issues, lack of qp and lack of rewards for the âmain gameâ (and somewhat lack of randomization). If they adress thoses, it would be a way better mode. So this is not a waste of resources to actually make the mode enjoyable instead of what it is currently.
I do find the weaves concept great. I do find issues with the current version. That doesnât mean it canât be improved anymore.
I guess removing Weaves from the DLC and making then free is the only option here, and I think it wouldnât even cause that much of a stirr (unlike cata) given the fact that people donât really like them anyways.
Honestly, looking at the state the Weaves are in atm, I doubt that making them free would change anything. We will have to wait for S2 and see what FS is going to change about Weaves, if anything of any importance.
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Thatâs basically exactly what I said in the my first response. They can make them work, but from the sounds of it, season two will just be another 160 weaves to grind through.
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If I remember well, hereâs what was announced for season 2 (weave related announcements) :
- Weaves skins for the main game (probably linked to challenge like âmax a weaponâ)
- QP for Weaves
- New balance (can be successful or not)
- Still no randomization (for season 2)
- New winds effects/maps ?
- Keeping some of the progress (so players can play âlegendâ level weaves faster (removing 40 maps of the 120 you want to play to get the âhigh rewardâ)
IF (and itâs a big if) the balance is made better, mode will be A LOT MORE enjoyable than it is currently and could actually replace deeds (at the moment, doesnât mean that deeds 2.0 should be made). Thatâs, in my opinion, issue 1.
There will still be a lack of âmainâ rewards, but weaves skins could help a bit solving the âno link between weaves and main gameâ. (it helps solving it, it doesnât solve it ALONE)
Well thereâs still Lohners shop, which may content some Weave-exclusive skins. Maybe Weaves could reward more âtokensâ for skin purchase.
Also, I donât understand why they didnât put skins such as these in as Weave rewards. At least the Sea Guard one (Galri Asur btw), which is basically the Weave version without the glow.
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To be up front?
Weapons are usable in any difficulty mode
Weapons are usable with people who donât have them purchased
Weapons are usable on all maps no matter their availability.
It also seems youâre under the assumption that I didnât purchase the dlc. And while I certainly wish that was true it wasnât. WoM is a raw deal. 20 USD for a mode you soon wonât be able to pug into. 20 USD for weaves nobody does (and with which I frankly could care less about, a sentiment shared by many players due to the nature of even getting a game going). What I paid was 20 USD for a weapon pack. Which is a raw deal and a hard sell to my friends.
Then again. If Cata remains as it is, then it then proceeds to continue not having any additional reward besides fun. Because itâs a mode that is available only to a small amount of players. Which is fine in my eyes but other players want to have their cake and eat it too.
I mean. That goes without saying. Nothing said here ultimately means much of anything for the future of any dlc new or old unless itâs a bug. Iâm not even petitioning for a change to anything. Iâm discussing the game with other like minded individuals as we pitch our stances back and forth and agree to disagree
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Actually no. I wasnât under that assumption. Iâm just saying, and you confirm it, that Weaves alone (as they are currently) are not enough to sell the dlc. And, even if you forgot the addition of beastmens, cataclysm does help a bit justify the price of 20 usd.
That clears up things.
No. I listed the things that removed value from the dlc to show the end result of what the dlc is versus what it should be. Weaves being⌠in a rough spot is completely different from the idea Iâm pitching.
âHey let players at least do private lobbies into cata with friends they know who havenât purchased the dlcâ would ADD value into Cataclysm because at least youâd be able to play with a larger number of players on your terms as opposed to the already small amount of people who purchased the dlc.
To note and to make a distinction to avoid confusion. This is a hell of a lot different than when FS forced all players to play the dlc maps of maps they didnât purchase or disabled. Because you wouldnât be able to QP into these.
Itâd also be a significantly easier sell because now you have at least ONE mode that you can play with other people, and so itâd be a much easier sell to my friends.
Right now the âstick fingers in your earâ approach is what will forever make sure that this DLC is only ever going to be a value when it shows up on a sale for 60% off. And thatâs just not okay.
Simply stating that any discussion we have here is going to fall on deaf ears anyways.
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Ha ! This, totally agreeing with you. The host could be able to invite people in. Will be harder to do for weaves, as people who donât have the dlc wonât be able to level up their character, but allowing the dlc owner to host a cataclysm game would be great.
I should also state that just because weaves are a raw deal doesnât mean theyâll continue to be. Theyâre doing⌠something for next season on top of the QP ideas theyâve pitched. So if they remain as valueless as they are ultimately remains to be seen.
Yep, but it will be an incremental process. So theyâll hopefully be better with season 2, but there will still a be a bit of work to make them the end game mode they wanted at the beginning. Letâs wait for more details relating to season 2 (@Fatshark_Hedge did hint at a lengthy post regarding what we should wait for season 2 âsoonâ if I remember well)
Edit :
Or several short posts, donât really know =p
@Rumeht Yeah and to further emphasize some of your points, you canât selectively QP into deeds or Twitch. You might randomly QP into a Twitch game, but thatâs unlikely and probably more of a nuisance to some players. There are definitely players who would be happy to pluck weaves out of the DLC, pay less money, and just play all of that other content.
Despite their thoughts of Cataclysm not being seen as a real âQuick playableâ experience, people absolutely do QP it and win games. And they can do it without voice chat too. Itâs also how they meet other players doing the same thing. A player should never be required to âleave the gameâ and have to use another resource in order to play a mode or do something thatâs a part of the game. Things like FoW tread the line because you can âtechnicallyâ start a QP, then ask the joiners if they want to play FoW. Or use steam to ask friends. So itâs not convenient, but also not impossible.
To wrap back around, I know what you mean about:
And itâs definitely important to deal with that.
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