Upcoming Crafting system adjustments are fine stop being toxic

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide General Discussion
129

People aren’t necessarily pissed off because it’s not more of the same.

People are pissed off because they didn’t learn a single lesson on what players enjoy, (Or actively chose to ignore them, both are… very bad looks) along with having some very blatant anti-player mechanics with the sheer level of heavy RNG.

Having more grind/RNG works for games like Destiny or Borderlands because that’s literally part of their genre and baked into the core gameplay. L4D-likes are not something designed around having to grind up perfect gear and whatnot, and even in the case of having a grind it’s something more concrete (EG: WWZ; just to cut it off, no, DRG is not a L4D-like) like leveling a class up. VT2’s crafting was tolerated, you’d be hard pressed to find people who liked it (I’m sure they… exist, but at best most people were just okay with it in my experience). Winds of Magic then introduced a ‘crafting’ system that was grind heavy but ultimately rewarded you. Particularly ironic since WoM was largely otherwise disliked on the whole, while VT2’s core was liked while the crafting was disliked. Smash’em together for Darktide? Nope! Slot machines for days.

Destiny is also something that actively rewarded you for playing along with having targeted loot. You can’t exactly target your perfect weapon in Darktide by doing X dungeon to get that momentum eviscerator or that rending rumbler you’ve been chasing. Darktide also literally throws away your progress if the weapon you try to upgrade is garbage. Even in the new system you’re still going to gambling consistently unless you’re lucky enough to get a weapon with the rolls you want. Otherwise:

-Enjoy buying your base level grey (And pray return to the Waking Sands that it’s a solid base roll with the stat distribution you want)

-Upgrade it. Hope that it’s got a decent perk/tier. If not, better hope your second one is good if you get that far.

-You get a blessing you want. Also you better hope the blessing is a decently high tier. If it’s a blessing you want and the highest tier of it you’ve gotten, now you get to agonize over whether or not to melt it for future usage/additional options. Fun! If the blessing is garbage, you should probably return to step 1 unless it’s got a perfect base.

-You get a second perk/tier you want. If both perks are particularly bad, sucks to be you! Shuffle the deck, you drew the joker.

-You get a second blessing you want. If your first was just mediocre/only an acceptable one if you got a decent second blessing, better hope it’s a good tier/blessing. Otherwise, return to step 1.

Also you just wasted hours of resources on that and get literally zero net benefit towards future progress towards your next attempt outside of a pittance of dockets.

There’s numerous ways they could alleviate this (EG: Allowing you to upgrade even locked blessing tiers, not locking things because why, allowing you to pay a hefty cost of resources to unlock a slot, refunding a portion of the resources dumped into things if you sell them, etc, etc.) but literally none of those are implemented because they’re trying to shove a horrendous grind deep down our throats and hoping we somehow wouldn’t notice it’s a colossal step backwards in literally every way from an already mediocre system.

Even coming from Destiny it’s a bad system. It is not ‘fine,’ it is a literal slot machine trying to prey on human impulses and people chasing dopamine hits. Except you don’t even really get those dopamine hits, and by the time you do get it it’s been so long since your last one you’ve been in rehab for months and just kinda shrug at it instead. (Barring being a lucky person in the first place, which is… the whole issue) In theory somebody could literally never get the weapon they want and in a game like Darktide that is a huge issue, even with the new system. (Which I hesitate to even call a new system, it’s a slapped on addition to the old one trying to appease players without actually implementing systemic changes)

Dammit I did the ramble-ramble again.

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130

No thanks.

Hard pass.

I don’t like green eggs and ham Sam I Am.

Like it’s weird that people are implying that the system is new and we just need to try it when we recognize what is wrong with it, have pointed out what is wrong with it, pointed out ways to make it less bad (shared resources, shared inventory, ability to rerollperks and blessings with no lock) but still insist that this update is something we just need to give a chance.

We are doing them a favour by pointing out now that the system is bad and people don’t like on top of why they don’t like it.

Honestly I would rather them figure it out before it turns into an Operation Heath situation where they need to rip the foundation up months if not years after a large chunk of people fall off.

Imagine you buy a game that is marketed as a looter shooter, you get on and then find out it’s an RTS. You would be pretty pissed so you go to the forums and complain. You don’t like RTS, you didn’t want to buy one.

Someone goes “well this complaining is toxic, I’m someone with 6k hours in Company of Heroes and I think it’s fine. People need to just give new things a try since it’s trying to appeal to a wider audience”. That’s basically what’s happening here.

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131

Curio crafting is still abysmal and fatshark have made no attempts to address it.

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132

Dont quite anderstant what are you referring. GM nightfalls maybe? Yes, completion guarantees 1 wepon drop. With a decent group it takes 20 min to get 1 roll of a weapon with 5 layers of RNG attached to it:

  1. Masterwork - 1 of 4
  2. Barrel - 2 of 8 (on average)
  3. Magazine - 2 of 8 (on average)
  4. Perk column 1 - 1 of 6 (on average)
  5. Perk column 2 - 1 of 6 (on average)
    And there are no way to reroll or adjust something you either get a trash roll, an “ok” roll and maybe a “god roll”
    Most players in D2 stop on “ok” roll and just enjoy the game, and i literally do not understand why ppl on this forum deny the concept that getting an “ok” roll is good enough.
    You as a player you are not entitled to have any god roll you wish for.
    I think if ppl just accept that fact they will have much more fun.
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And about as I expected you didn’t bother responding to any of my other salient points and chose to nitpick the singular point not even about Darktide. Let me know when you want to discuss Darktide, not Destiny.

I also specifically didn’t mention god rolls, I specifically mentioned going for general things you want. (As long as they weren’t garbage) That also opens a whole can of worms with breakpoints and whatnot that I’m not wanting to go down. Needless to say it’s not as simple as just accepting a non-perfect weapon.

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134

Surprisingly you do not mention thar you can reroll 1 of 2 perks and you have direct control over 1 of 2 blessings.
For me it looks like only 3 layer of rng : perk type (i omit perk lvl cause they almost alway rolled at tier 3 which is good enough imo) , blessing type and blessing level .

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…I literally referenced the locking of perks multiple times, this is exactly why I said things like “If both perks are particularly bad, sucks to be you! Shuffle the deck, you drew the joker.” or “If your first was just mediocre/only an acceptable one if you got a decent second blessing, better hope it’s a good tier/blessing.” The point of those statements being that you can only change one of them, so if both are mediocre/bad then you’re screwed on that weapon. (And this is only referring to weapons so far, curios are an absolute mess)

I literally spelled out the steps for you, I’m not going to debate the exact ‘levels’ of RNG. You’re also ignoring the base stats of the weapon along with the actual stat distribution. You also can’t just ignore the perk levels because you said so.

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136

Well it kinda boils down to “apples vs oranges” - the system looks fine to me because me is me , and doesnt work for you becasue you is you.

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But but don’t you want a 380 roll +stamina +sprint efficiency stripped down terrifying barrage auto gun?!?

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138

You can be okay with it, though I think you’re actively shooting yourself in the foot if you are, but that doesn’t make the statements about how RNG heavy it is any less true. Trying to back pedal to “Well just agree to disagree!” because you have no rebuttal is lame as hell, especially if you’re going to make broad sweeping generalizations throwing a bunch of people under one umbrella and making false assertions about their beliefs. It’s fine if you want to play a game that actively disrespects your effort and time, but don’t try to claim people who dislike that are ‘toxic.’

Again: It’s entirely possible you might never get something you’re looking for. I spent around two months trying to get a momentum eviscerator and never got one, for example. Not even anything more specific than that, just one general blessing on one general weapon.

internal screaming

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139

I agree that this game isn´t about loot and i personally enjoy the gameplay and that´s it.

But it doesn´t mean that games can´t evolve or change without touching the core-gameplay. Since DT wants to be a live-service game, we need some sort of endgame.

Also way too many poeple focus on the loot already for whatever reasons anyway… curious hm?

The upcoming system is fine, but we need different content to play around it.

140

Live service is now an excuse to “finish” the game* after.
VT2 had a LOT more content on launch.
DT is either gonna add it in post, or sell it in the shop.

Endgame just isn’t the gear.
People focus on the loot because it’s the only way to play the game differently.
But if your loot is artificially scarce and of varying quality… well.

No matter what people say: VT and DT share the same DNA.
Players will keep playing for the same reasons.

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141

owo

(That’s an uhhhh… amusing auto correct/typo)

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why is warhammer darktide playerbase being arbitrarily compared to the playerbase of another game? might as well be ridiculing people who want to eat pie for not eating cake.
Also, the only people who enjoy gambling mechanics in games are those with poor decision making skills and poor impulse control. It’s a scientific fact and such people are abnormal, and are not the majority in a game community, and not even profiting from them with a cash shop only serves to antagonize the majority of the playerbase with no gain unless the developers gain enjoyment from antagonizing the playerbase. Imagine being a dev and creating problems that you dont intend to sell solutions for. Just making problems for no reason.

143

The crafting system that’s coming up is fine in the sense that it is better than what was there before. Which is practically nothing.
Kinda like saying getting to eat a piece of sh!t is fine now because because they give you ketchup for it.

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144

It is fine IF we will be able to get good weapons and test blessing combinations.
I have yet to see the choices that FS has made. But I believe, at least I hope, that they will be less restrictive and less time consuming than what we have now.

This is not what is said. What is said is, before complaining maybe you should test it.
I said it several times… RNG is not what I like. However, what I want is something that permit me to play several game styles. The system should permit me to do that.
Then, even if this is not what I have dreamt about, that’s fine.
I prefer that they release this and work on stability and new content…

145

pet peeve of mine but before making this judgement go read what your blessings options are. there is an entirely legitimate argument that on some guns that this would be good blessing rolls, or at least speedloader has an argument. autogun blessings are terrible almost across the board.

people expect high influence items and on ranged and autogun blessings in particular and think their luck is bad when their luck is fine, the pool is bad.

146

like, this thing i rolled almost unmodified and is my best non-flamer ranged weapon on zel by a fair amount i’d say. it almost exactly fits the description you gave - a 380 autogun with +stamina and stripped down and it’s my baby. i’ve (accidentally) duoed heresy with this gun.

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the blessings on this gun are not where the power comes from. the entire pool of blessings is terrible and as such things that look terrible eg speedloader, stripped down etc have functional utility which is arguably better than most of their tree.

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I get the sentiment and honestly haven’t looked up every blessing of every gun but this really just kind of compounds my negative opinion around the crafting system. There is also a discussion to be had around giving people information in game and not expecting that they will go to a wiki / look up a guide for every bit of info but that’s a different discussion altogether.

If even being generous and saying half or more of your pool is bad and you are expecting people to roll not once, not twice, but 4 times on it and then going “well we will give you 2 outs” then it’s not exactly a great feeling.

Hell even looking at how big the pools are on some weapons I’m both not liking my chances and amazed that rev it up can roll so many times.

148

remember two things: one some blessings will only roll T4, and T4 rolls are currently (imo) totally impractically rare. i don’t advise pursuing, we’re talking completely leveling up probably dozens of items to full (since the second consecrate roll has a better range) to find one. so cut those out of your odds. so don’t compare T1-T4 blessings to T4 blessings, they aren’t intended to be the same power level or currently rarity.

and two not to compare blessings over pools, something i totally agree the game does a terrible job of preventing the player from doing. players see stripped down and compare it to eg Brutal Momentum or Decimator or something. it’s not, it’s not competing with good blessings at all lol, it’s competing (on that particular gun) with this (expletive )

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in that dire context you understand - this weapon gets poor value out of blessings compared to some others. you’re not rolling badly the dice is just covered with bad outcomes. which makes some of those bad outcomes nowhere near as bad as players evaluate.

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