This is not worth some damage loss?
You’re crazy lol
Are you karking kidding me? I was literally talking about kantrael’s alt fire. It’s literally on the quote.
And no, it doesn’t have enough cleave even with manstopper to make it worth it on damage/ammo.
Manstopper is fine on agrip and zarona, though on zarona I prefer flechette instead.
You’re gonna use only the alt fire for the entire match or something? lol
You quoted me on my comment on the kantrael alt fire, on a video you posted that had nothing to do with it.
If you want to make a point on something I’ve said then quote me correctly so I understand what are you talking about.
If you are talking about using the zarona’s alt fire (instead of kantrael’s) the entire match, then the answer is yes. I find it worth it with scattershot and flechette. (though it seems SubOptImAl for some :b)
If you are talking about agripinaa, I don’t know if I would change full bore and no respite for manstopper and sctattershot because you know… enemies don’t tend to spawn in a row nor stay in place outside the psykhanium. And yes, I use the alt fire of agrip all the time because the normal fire is crap.
I mean, you quoted me about Scattershot/Manstopper blessing combo doesn’t offering different playstyle because you only use it for Kant’s alt fire and it doesn’t feel worth it to prove the point while ignoring the impact it have on normal shell that’s show on the video.
Even then Kant’s alt fire does still get the near unlimited cleave from manstopper so it does have something to do with it, but it usually better to just shoot normal shell instead because the enemy conga line won’t stand still long enough to let you dump 2-3 Dragon’s Breath shell into them.
Also idk what you’re fighting to say that it still doesn’t have enough cleave even with Manstoper when it could cleave through like 10+ elites per shot, unless you’re shooting it into Bulwark because Scattershot’s interaction got fixed a while ago and the alt fire won’t penetrate their shield.
I don’t really care about Lawbringer/Zarona’s duckbill because it’s only (barely)good for horde clear and I already have melee weapon for that.
Also if I want to use Agripinaa only for its slug I would just use Revolver. Even Agrip Revolver feel much better to use while not being too opressive like Zarona.
I’m not ignoring anything. Let me make it more simple: Which combination is the optimal?. If I remember correctly, on the video you uploaded, it was full bore and no respite yes?
It’s not different gameplay if I need 10 elites to stay put in a row to make it worth it, because that’s not happening! That’s my point. The optimal build that you can reliably activate and use in most circumstances, will be the one you showcased: deadshot+ full bore+ no respite+ whatever extra dmg talents/perks you are using.
I’ll take your word because I don’t have the mod to try it myself, I only test it on missions. My only guess then is that there’s damage reduction when cleaving through enemies.
Considering how bad dragon breath is I agree, but better is still not good. For purposes of an optimal use, the zarona is overall better on most situation you would find in game.
I said mixed horde, meaning with elites and specials. It’s pretty good, you should try it… but only if you can proc flechette consistently, which is not hard with vet.
I’m curious, why would you use agrip instead of zarona if not for the slug?
Good and true, why use agrip shotgun at all when there’s a revolver? I mean, that rif… eh shotgun is for single target, right?
Still, none of this will change the fact that just to get a weapon working normally, you need to grind blessings and perks that are just +dmg (and +cleave I guess?). The system is bloated with lazy blessings and perks. Do you want to take on account Scattershot/Manstopper as viable combination? Okay! There’s 9 blessings in total and we found two combinations of two that are good to use.
For as long as this is the state of things there will be more threads of X weapon doesn’t do enough damage.
Weapons should not need +dmg blessings/perks to do well. Those blessings should not exist at all. Wouldn’t you prefer a system that is more interesting than that?
just gonna say it, unless fat shark wants to start changing the length of the tubular magazine, they should just cap shotgun capacity at 8.
It creates a really weird scenario when your magazine tube is holding 13 rounds.
I’ve got 53 more shells in this 5 round tube
Yes, it’s optimal IF you want 1-2 tap stuff. You were complaining about you gun not being able to do it while also doesn’t using the optimal build to do just that.
You can’t just bake a cake and wonder why it doesn’t taste like steak.
There are plenty of time where I’d get multiple elite enemies stacking on top of each other in high difficulty and I could get a lot of milege out of Manstopper.
Both build are good at different situation.
Not really, it work about the same as normal Manstopper shell.
Because fanning is cool.
Shotgun ammo is easier to manage than Revolver, it also have high stagger that combo well with melee. It’s just the slug that’s clunky to use.
That implying the Shotgun suck without it which is not really. It still able to 2-3 tap stuff while also stoping them from being a threat. The Manstopper/Scattershot combo doesn’t offer anything outside of small critical chance and increase range stagger in normal situation and I still do just fine with it, but well that’s personal opinion.
Also there are plenty of weapon that have multiple blessing choice that doesn’t focus on just damage, some are lacking in tasteful blessing department for sure though.
Ranged cleave is unique to melee cleave in that as far as I can tell there is no damage penalty for subsequent targets. This is why manstopper is king, it’s an insane multiplier to your damage output. On higher difficulties it is not difficult or uncommon to leverage this cleave for crazy damage per shot. It fits Zarona/Lawbringer best but honestly is probably optimal for every shotgun.
It’s also why the insane power stacking on old autopistol was so powerful. Increasing damage while also increasing the number of targets you hit per bullet is like getting 2 separate damage multipliers from 1 bonus.
Exactly, I don’t know how to make it more clear. I think it’s nonsense to shoot a flamer point blank to the face (all magic pellets hitting) and not kill it.
Without full bore (and no crits), to kill a flamer (hitting the head) you need two shots point blank, two shots on medium range, and two shots long range. It’s nonsense that it works so bad at short distance and so good at long.
That is my whole complain. If people think this is fine, well I don’t have much else to say.
After watching this I went and did more testing both in game and psykhanium to understand why was it so underwhelming, and found out what the problem was. If you hit an arm (or a leg I suppose) and not all pellets land, the dot is way smaller, which is a problem if everything is not together in line, you’ll need more shots to do the job.
So problem solved, thanks for the showcase!
I’ll just limit myself to zarona’s alt, which I’m not sure but I think that if only one pellet hits that will already apply the 6 bleed stacks. Either way, with the wide horizontal fire you’ll hit most of the time.
We’ll have to agree to disagree.
Indeed, I’m pretty sure people will start to notice the more they play, hopefuly FS won’t take months to do some balancing.
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