Un-nerf health on cleave 2020

I ain’t got an essay prepared because I think it’s evident how much this talent sucks.

Not even bothered by the 0.3 max health gain on single target, that can stay.


well little boost to it would be inplace but making it on previous level will be again insanely strong and overpowering rest of talents


I agree with @Perteks. It can be tweaked up a little bit to try and match it with the others, but it can never go back to the way it was. "Un-nerf"ing it doesn’t seem good, little tweaks here and there could be fine.


Ok, let’s wheel and deal. I think it would be fair if cleave gave 0.3 health on single target +1 hp for every target hit after first hit with the cap set at


15’s my final offer

There is a better idea by user @Palesz - make THP generstion a weapon type related trait. So hammers heal on stagger etc. This way we are balancing weapons, and not class + weapons + healing talents combo - so it’s a lot easier to do.

Hammers are a high cleave weapon, though. Would really rather get thp off of cleave with those instead of stagger.

Well, actually they stagger more than they cleave. Number of targets damaged is not as high as one might expect…
Also jt doesn’t mean we would be forced to use current THP generation methods, maybe there could be a choice or possibility to roll one of 2-3 ways of getting THP. Anyway, hammer with stagger could work, axe with kill, greatsword with cleve. My only doubts are related to THP on crit, which is very build and class dependant.

It’s an elegant suggestion, but also a guarantee no one will ever use any other weapon trait again because health > literally anything.

And probably some other type of jank.

Eh, two things. That sounds like jankery with what the game considers cleaved. Also stagger values seem all over the place, that kruber Cata guide by cheesy says Halberd will generate more stagger thp than 2h hammer or xsword (of which I’m convinced all 3 should benefit more from a working cleave thp talent), and I know that, at least during 1.6, 1h swords were bizarrely fantastic at staggering enemies.

And (screw it, here’s more things) what about Slayer having access to 2 different kinds of ez thp gains or Shade if you lock her weapons to only a few kinds of health gains when the only thing a Shade would ever want is thp on kills? You’ve given one class too much and forced a meta on another.

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cleave is cleave only damage, stagger is stagger, its have similar mechanic like damage cleave but its have its own stagger power too

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Oh f*ck me. :unamused:

Alright where do I have to go to learn more about this detail

the healing “trait” would be an addition to current weapon traits and properties. So you would have: properties, traits and 1 healing trait :slight_smile:of course removing thp having to choose between thp trait and swift slaying would have been a horrible idea.

Also it doesn’t have to be “only 1 to choose from” - maybe several. But they would be fine tuned to every weapon type. As such, THP generation would be a part of weapon’s “properties” - right now certain weapons are horrible at thp generation on some classes, while pretty good on others (imagine using shield without thp on stagger available :slight_smile: ).

And well, if halberd grants more thp than other weapons, something weird is going on…

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Iam really annoyed if I see “THP on stagger” and “THP on cleave” Talents in the same Level 5 row. It just excludes tons of weapons for that career, since the later is completly worthless to the point were on stagger is always better.

Right now its 0,3 THP for the first target and 0.75 THP for every target after. Even on Merc, the Lord of Cleavage, generates basically no THP via that Talent. How are other careers are supposed to take value from it?

It would probably need a tiny beta to come up with a solution, but it would be nice if it actually would promote cleaving. Something like 0 on first and second target 2 on the third and 3 on the following ones. It would be the same THP gain we have now up until the third target. Four or more would be the point where you actually get some decent health per swing.


My solution is to revert the THP gain on cleave back to where it was pre-WOM, but make it so it starts on the second target hit rather than the first. This would make it strong again, but slightly more niche.

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Agreed. The talent at its current form is pretty much useless, even on high cleave weapons.

Well currently it’s completely fu… since they did that change right as they launched WOM.

Cleave is completely useless, you just don’t want it on any class and any weapon, stagger is also screwed unless you are bashing stuff with shield.

But then what if you like Footknight like me, but don’t want to play the stupid shield… well then you are sh… out of luck, because you get 2 useless options.

This should have been fixed weeks ago.

If they wanted to nerf temp hp then they should just nerf it all by some %. There is huge amount of issues and bugs, there was no reason whatsoever to break another core mechanic, before other things are fixed.

It would need reverting back and workin on this when other bugs and major issues are fixed… like holy cow… for example, the ult on WHC and Merc still doesn’t work like half of the time.

That is kind of thing that needs attention, all these things need to get fix before they start breaking stuff that was working relatively fine.


THP on cleave currently feels like it has no place in the game due to it’s low generation, honestly if they just removed it and added the crit/ headshot one to replace it i’d be happy.

Stagger right now with any stagger weapon (hammers,shields,flail, fire sword) is amazingly good, obviously it wouldn’t work on cleave based weapons and hard hitters.
Cleave, well its quite hard to get any thp on in mostly because only good cleave weapon is halberd 2hd swords and its not often that you cleave more than 3 enemies (mostly because only slave rats and ungors have small mass rest stops everything quite fast)

But reverting it back is stupid as hell, it was so good that you could do with any weapon at all even with axes

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That it did. As a counterpoint 1h axes had their cleave eliminated. They can also keep the 0.3 on first target hit since that makes sense and only gives enough to stall health decay.

It isn’t, it was not a problem… it was hardly ever a problem, I mean big problem.

I could prolly come up with at least 50 major problems that actually need solving.

As for Halberd, forget it, you’re not getting anything with Halberd and cleave that is just… no-temp-hp mutator.

As for stagger, fire sword is crap overall… normal fail is fun but still sucks, it’s just weak (flaming flail is pretty good, thats right, that one works fine with stagger). Shields, yea sure that’s what I said… just bash like dummy till you are full, that is doing insane temp HP - sure not balanced compared to other things, at all. The hammer, if you mean like duals on slayer than yea I guess, didn’t try 1h hammer because that one sucks also … so …

Like what am I supposed to do on FK with Executioner & Halberd… nothing, I am just screwed.

This was terrible change, same as with other stuff, it should get first tested in some internal beta at least, do some quick tweaking and testing and then release when it actually works.


It was overshadowing rest of thp tallent, yeah not a problem

Halberd its still good but being base game weapon its overshadowed with dlc’one (nothing new or out of oridinary)

Fire sword stagger thp generation is way better than anything at all

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