Trapper Net

Player Needs a way to get out of trapper net or net needs to break after x amount of time.

As i was playing i was on a ledge sniping priority targets and got hit with a trapper net and as the rest of the team had jumped off the ledge already i had no way of getting out of it and died.

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I disagree, there needs to be disablers to keep team cohesion.

If your team jumped down from the ledge, you should as well. Or, be very confident in your ability to dodge the trapper/dog if you want the advantage of maintaining the high ground

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Have to agree with Zchuetzenhaus here.

I get being annoyed if your team didn’t say they were jumping down, and left you up there to die to a horde though. That has happened to me.

Trappers exist to punish Lone Wolf players.
If you could break free solo, then there’d be no danger when you’re caught out alone.
Plus, they would not be able to end runs, because anyone caught could just break free.

If the team jumps down; you need to follow. Or be VERY aware of your surroundings, and the sound cues.
If I stay behind to pop heads safely, I make darned sure to drop down ASAP if I hear a Trapper or a Pox Hound.

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Sometimes that happens, it’s rare, but this is a necessary mechanic to encourage teamplay and cohesion. It should stay how it is IMO.

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if there are ledges that your team cannot get back up, or you are the last one alive, this makes no sense about “cohesion”. the nets are a dumb game mechanic and only cause annoyance.

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I think there needs to be better visual distinction to tell them apart from distance, and better audio cues especially in relation to audio mix levels when there’s a horde, but the basic mechanic works as a deterrent from splitting up. It just needs to be tuned better.

There’s plenty of times when you push forward and don’t know there’s a trapper cause you just can’t see OR hear them, and it feels like you’re being unfairly punished.

I don’t agree about hounds - I just wish they were easier to stun out of their leap. You can dodge it, but not with some weapons, like the ogryn shield, and it feels like punishing you for your weapon choice not your positioning or ability as a player. I think the hitbox on the leap takes you down well before it should, and they either have too much stagger resistance or their hitbox is off during their leap, because you can shield power attack one mid leap and it doesn’t register, especially if you don’t hit it in the face.

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Disagree, I think the mechanic is fine and forces you to learn how to dodge and keep track of enemies and your environment. Otherwise the game would be too easy.

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The whole point is that you can’t do anything about them.
They exist to make people work together.

Again; if there was a mini-game, tied to a weapon or not, people would be able to lone wolf and ignore their teammates.
The threat when you are the last one standing would also not exist, as they could no longer be the end of a run.

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You can fight back:

  1. Dodge
  2. Kill them before they incap you.
  3. Stay with the team.

If they incap you; you messed up. You don’t get a free escape.

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I understand your point; you’re using ‘realism’ in a game about ogryn, chaos gods, future tech, and mutated people.
IE: Nothing else is realistic.

Game balance takes priority over ‘realism’ anyways.
Just because I disagree does not mean I don’t understand.

Realism always takes a back seat to what is good gameplay, and good mechanics. Trappers exist for a very clear reason, to punish solo players. In the scenario you described, you should have heard the trapper coming, and either took the risk to fight it and dodge the net (easy if you see it coming), or dropped down.

Trappers are fine.

On the other hand, it is foolish to say “This game has fantasy / sci-fi elements, therefore nothing has to make sense”. Where there is no conflict with gameplay and mechanical considerations, the world should be plausible and internally coherent. All good fiction is grounded in relatable reality, that behaves according to internally consistent rules, so that the more fantastical elements have significance, and a basis for comparison and contrast.

The amount of people willing to make the “Magic exists so nothing has to make sense” argument always astounds me in these types of discussions.

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For the record, I agree that gameplay should always trump realism when it comes to games like this, but I recommend not using ‘nothing else is realistic’ as an argument. It’s pretty fallacious, and the willful suspension of disbelief requires a certain level of verisimilitude in order to function in the first place. It’s the reason people are willing to accept that Superman can fly and shoot lasers from his eyes, but find it very silly that nobody can see through his disguise when he puts on a pair of glasses. We accept super powers for the sake of immersive quality, but don’t accept that everybody in Metropolis is stupid.

Ogryns and future tech are an accepted part of this setting, and we build verisimilitude through the consistency of those ideas being represented, and when you aren’t allowed to cut through a net, it does seem a little silly at first glance. An Ogryn could probably also just flex and tear the cables holding it together, too. That’s okay, though, because if you’re willing to accept that the game doesn’t allow that, we get another interesting(and presently annoying) disabler to add variety and tactical consideration when positioning with your team.

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While I agree. I will say that first and foremost.
It must be said that people actually realistically would not recognize Superman as Clark Kent.

I can’t remember the magician, but he did a ‘trick’ on people in Hollywood, where he would ask people for directions with a map he had.
While they were pointing out landmarks on his map, 2 hired actors would step between the Magician and the Marks (The people being tricked. The ones giving directions) while carrying a large painting or piece of drywall.
After the actors passed, someone different from the magician would resume asking for directions.
This new person could be talking and pointing out questions on the map, and would have a different voice, height, and even gender or race (going from white to black).
The Marks, so focused on the map, would not notice the person they were talking too had changed genders or race. Even if the hand pointing out things on the map went from, as I said, white to black.

While it seems absurd. It’s really rather realistic that people just don’t notice things.

But still; I agree that ‘It’s tech/magic’ is not a catch-all excuse. I did not mean for it to be a catch-all excuse.
Only that ‘In a real setting; I’d cut the cables’ is not really an argument to change the game balance.

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All good, I don’t mean to start an argument. I just happened to catch it while browsing and it made my nostrils flare.

Hope you have a nice holiday weekend, dude. (:

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So if realism has not its place here in this game, why are we able to jump, run and slide?

I see you know how to play “no ready posty”!

I did say, I think quite carefully, that realism takes a back seat to good mechanics and gameplay. If you can point out where I said that realism has no place, I will be very impressed. Because I didn’t say it.

If you read what I actually did say, you’ll see quite clearly that I think realism is very important. But you must make sacrifices in order to make compelling mechanics that drive challenge and tension in the gameplay.

I will put some strenuously highlighted examples below for you, so as not to tax you to the point of overheating.

What I actually said:

Where there is no conflict with gameplay and mechanical considerations, the world should be plausible and internally coherent.

All good fiction is grounded in relatable reality, that behaves according to internally consistent rules, so that the more fantastical elements have significance, and a basis for comparison and contrast.

The amount of people willing to make the “Magic exists so nothing has to make sense” argument always astounds me in these types of discussions.

Is that a bold enough emphasis of what I actually said for you?

Now, to address what you said:

If I get pin down by a dog, I will fight back.

You will struggle and panic, if it is a chaos hound doubly so. Have you ever actually seen someone try to fend off a big attack dog biting them? What you imagine you would do is immaterial, and doesn’t much impress me.

Same if I get a net on me. If I have a knife on me, I will use it and try to set me free.

Except it’s not just a net, is it. It’s an electrocution net. Next time you get netted by a trapper, look at your character. You are spasming desparately, not in control of your muscles, on the ground, like a wet fish on land.

So not only have you not made a good mechanical or gameplay reason for why you should be able to break free, your own argument appealing to realism above all else has fallen completely flat on its face. It would be entirely unrealistic for you to be able to whip out a knife and cut yourself free of a metal net that is tasing you.

Once again, the trapper is fine.

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I wonder if this guy is how game devs feel when everyone in forums give their suggestions lmao. Literal nonsense, the trappers are indeed fine.

If anything since I pick up on their sound cues I dodge them basically every time now

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Its a core feature of the game.
Play together or die alone is pretty much the motto of L4D clones.

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This is why experienced players will wait for each other before jumping off a no-return ledge, or if they are the last one they will rush to jump down and rejoin the team :slight_smile:

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This.
This is one of the easiest ways to spot experienced vs inexperienced players

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