This is a complicated issue, more than one might think just seeing the video game aspect.
I’m not sure what side I fall on. There is definitely etiquette in asking your group. And that’s a learned social behavior the playerbase came up with and “enforces” but people also shouldn’t get griefed (as well as take the grims against team’s wishes).
But I have to say, unequivocally, that there has been more than one game where we would not have failed if we’d had that little bit of extra health. That contributes to my inability to choose a definitive side in this issue. And your “they shold have been good enough anyway” argument is neither clever nor unique nor valid.
Joining a mission with grims and complaining about someone picking them up is like joining an extra poxburster/barrel mission and complaining you got knocked around a bit. The default should be for the person who doesn’t want them picked up to voice it, not the other way around.
And if you quickplay you simply have no right to complain about anything regarding the mission (QP for life).
I agree that politeness and consideration for teammates are good things and should be encouraged. Where we disagree, I think, is the significance (if any) a single grimoire has on the overall outcome of the match and how big of a faux pass it is to pick one up…
The real question is, why is the responsibility of the person who wants to complete the optional mission objective to solicit everyone else’s buy-in? If someone feels very strongly about it, is there any responsibility for them to speak up and say, “I’d rather we not carry grims?”
It’s an earnest question, and I’d like to hear your thoughts on this.
Ouch!
Rereading my post, I could see where it might come across as “get good,” and that’s not what I intended. I apologize if I sounded flippant and dismissive. Allow me to offer a better explanation.
As you rightly pointed out, it’s complicated, and every match is different (part of the excitement and appeal of the game). Even so, there are observable patterns and general behaviors that tend to make or break a run…
Disclaimer:These are generalizations, tend to be true on the whole, and are not exhaustive. There are always exceptions, so assume I’ve conceded them.
Not Staying Together/Bad Positioning: The most frequent deaths I see are from players who aren’t with the group when they get pounced or downed. In particular, not dropping down on cut-off points when everyone else has, rendering you unreachable should you get got. This also includes not making use of cover to get out of the line of sight of gunners/snipers, letting yourself get surrounded by hordes, and trying to stand and fight when it might be better to retreat or push forward, depending on how close you are to an airlock or elevator.
Not Blocking, Pushing, Dodging, and Sliding: Knowing how to make space, get out of bad positioning, and other movement and defensive fundamentals are key to the higher difficulty levels, and it only gets less and less forgiving as you have more specials to contend with. I learned this the hard way in Vermintide 2, and I am very grateful for J_Sat’s videos. Watching him play taught me how to maneuver properly, and a lot of those skills translate well to Darktide. I see more players die to this at every difficulty than anything else, and I believe it’s important to master these skills before moving on to Malice difficulty and beyond.
Not Paying Attention to Audio Queues: The 'tide games have great sound design and do a good job of letting you know when you’re being swung at, when you’re being shot at, when an elite, special, or boss is coming. Paying attention to these and responding appropriately has a HUGE impact on survivability. Communicating these to your teammates through tagging also helps.
Not Using Resources: I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had a teammate walk right on past a medicae station, despite me pinging it for them and marking it with an eyeball. Or failing to pick up a med crate. Or picking a med or ammo crate and never using it the entire match… likewise, taking a full ammo bag when a single magazine would be sufficient, or using a medicae charge when other teammates needed it more, or dropping a crate before a dropdown where no one can make use of it…
I’m not saying carrying a grim has no impact whatsoever, but I am saying that more often than not, one or more of the above factors had a much greater impact. That’s my opinion anyway…
I can’t really think of how that wouldn’t solve this social issue.
Now you have to protect the players cuz the books die if they die and you lose the reward.
And there is no missing your teammate picked up a grim and now you have no health.
Sounds so good I know it will never happen.
I suggested this a while back…something akin to Halo 2 match replay would be nice.
As far as the barrel experience, If I am 1st in a room/area I will shoot the barrels before they have a chance to bounce me away. As Ogryn, I will used them as a Rocket jump to get me into combat. IEuse barrels before they use you!
I was wondering when someone would chime in with this tired chestnut, ridiculous.
There is little player control over what maps to play regardless if QP or not, picking up grims is NOT required and silly thing that nobody in their right mind expects to happen.
If OP wanted book he should have picked a map without barrels on ledges and teammates that would silently (sus) grief the book griefer huh.
WTH you talking about, picking up the grim is absolutely forcing (compelling) the rest of the time to play differently and with a disadvantage.
What’s that about compelling ppl?
Yeah you’re forcing a 2 wound player who would normally have zero issues to be at 1 wound.
It’s not up to you to decide to impose an unexpected and out of the norm handicap on them because you decided to test their “business to be at that difficulty”.
If you are playing in high difficulties and the game is really easy for you (like how you always say HISTG damnations and Maelstroms are) You can suffer a bit of corruption for me to get penance points or weeklies.
Mega non issue for you to be complaining about a game feature and calling it “griefing”.
Not up to you to force the rest of the team, we’re not talking about me here either, I wasn’t in OPs group.
Yeah I also don’t like going from 2 wounds to 1, “a little bit of corruption”.
“Hey, my ALL HP Ogryn is FINE, IDK why u guyz are complainin lol”
LOL @ weeklies, you guys are are really making the weeklies do a lot of the heavy lifting here, nobody in their right mind takes books for the weeklies.
I love the logic stretch here, very limited map selection, QPs with actually slight bonuses, harmful pickups (that nobody picks up) that block beneficial pickups. pickups that require player iteration, but yeah it’s a “game feature”.
Oh, I have an idea, what if we made ALL weapons as OPAF++ as the DS4 (as you want to) ? This would surely solve the grims/books issues once and for all!
and if you’re playing at such threat levels you shouldnt really need the extra 10k dockets after a couple of missions.
not to mention that 1)book weeklies are the worst to do
2)melk is useless
i really dont get it. is it a larping thing? or is it an ego thing? why do people insist on running books? if you really wanna do the penance speed running lower threat level is faster
The neat part is that I never use Quick match and always try to start a private match with friends so I never have people complain about books, if they do? votekick is an option.
To OPs point however, picking up a book is not a big enough deal to warrant getting ledged or left to die on purpose. Also helps to no do Quick match.
You’re right I just like the shiny green book. and like I said it’s hardly worth blasting someone off the map for picking it up. If you still have a problem with people picking up books manually choose a map without grims maybe?
I barely play differently with 1 wound or 2, I just know Im at higher risk of getting one tapped when we have grims. Oh well
That makes sense, The person who holds the grim should now be a priority target for specials, also increase the spawn rate of nurgle troops.
Its literally a homing beacon for chaos. I also think if someone dies while holding a grim they should exploding into a chaos spawn. That’ll teach us to pick them up.!
According to the vibe some people are giving off in this thread it should just instantly teleport you into the realms of Chaos where you’re juggled between dogs and mutants for all of eternity.
But why stop there, someone is not picking the weapon/skills/trinkets YOU think should be played with? boof
Someone used a stim on themselves instead of using it on you? boof
I really don’t care if people in QP pick up books or not (I will if someone keeps pinging it and we’re doing well but typically ignore them) but dang I had no idea people liked to blame them on their mission failures that much.
