Tomes and Grims

Unless you specifically just enjoy this type of challenge…tomes and grims suck.

If you speedrun you’ll finish quickly enough to offset the bonus XP from getting them (200 bonus xp is nothing considering the time some of these groups take to waddle their way through everything - or worse, fail).

If you get to a certain point, the loot upgrades are also pointless (as in, who cares if they are green, blue, or orange… when they are capped at a powerlevel I’m already over in most slots).

For people who play this game for the combat, they are just a drag and slow everything down. The worst part is people making a big deal about the XP and loot without realizing how trivial the differences really are.

FS either needs to increase the significance of getting these items, and / or add a seperate que entirely that increases XP and Loot rewards based on time spent for people who would prefer a different type of challenge.

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You wont get emp vault without tome/grim. :money_mouth_face:

Only thing I think would be nice, if tomes and grims were on random locations.
Maybe randomizer modifier for deeds/future bounties? :zebra:


Do we play the same game? The quality of items is highly dependant of the grim/tomes.
Separate queue for non tomes grims? Its basically the identity of the game… but ye, perhaps a gametype for recruit without tomes/grims… you can always host and say you dont want to pick them up, the amount of ppl leaving will show you the general feeling towards tomes/grims.

Randomizing them would be possible, but you would not achieve what you want. People will run around solo more often to speed the process, higher difficulties would be at a higher risk for no reward… ironic

Maybe I’m missing something but why should I care about item qualities, even red items when I’m probably just going to craft things anyways? Are reds not simply cosmetically different from oranges?

Yes they are, but the higher the quality of your vault, the faster you gear up if you have the required lvl. Once you start adapting your gear for the best possible traits / stats youll see why 50 orange scraps disappear in a blink etc.
The exp difference is quite a huuge difference, especially if a team is able to take maxloot without wiping.
If they are not ready for maxloot… then yeah… it sucks.

Maybe I’m just a casual noob, but why should I care about the quality? Seems to me only the power ranking is important given you can and probably will customize and craft them anyways. Are illusions really that important to people?

I don’t get it.

That helps explain things somewhat during the leveling process, but still not sure it’s enough for me to want to mess with all that once I’ve got 300 level gear. I just find it personally boring and tedious. Would rather just have a speedrunning mode where we get better rewards for quick and efficient runs.

Maybe this just isn’t my game. I had the impression it was about killing rats and having a good co-op hack n slash time…not side tracking to go book collecting. Shrug.

Lets look at trinkets. A white trinket gives you heropower only, a green one gives you some nice useless stats, blue one 2 useless stats, orange will give you on top of that a frikkin amazing trait (which is the best part of the whole trinket)
Now after having 4, 5, even 20 orange trinkets of your choice, you want to adapt one for a tank with max hp / stamina / whatever you want on it. Did you ever try rerolling a damn trait on a weapon / trinket? I wasted like 50 scrap on a single weapon only to switch to the trait i wanted to, now add up for the whole gear setup and x5 for all characters x3 for all careers… see my point?

Higher quality items are recycled into more resources.

It also saves resources into crafting since you have a chance to get good rares.

I don’t…because I reroll and craft gear quite regularly and still have about 30+ orange dust. I also don’t play more than 3 careers, which all use similar stats anyways. I just don’t see the need to be that stingy with materials or try that hard doing something I dislike just to save some scrap.

Yet, I pretty much have to endure that since it seems to be the default everyone is pushing. That, or make custom games and waste time in a different way. Like I said…maybe just the wrong game for me.

I doubt you played V1 long enough to understand how painful the crafting system is. In V1 they changed all the staffs of the wizard in one single patch… without giving you anything to compensate for it, but ruining quite a looot of work of yours since players had to reroll every trait on each staff. 30 orange dust is nothing, sry it really is nothing, thats what sometimes goes into 1 weapontrait since you cannot choose the trait you get, its rng… its a bad system.

Now people enjoy the challenge, because everyone feels like they can handle 2 grims, and then they wipe. Others dont pick them and play safely through a map, I dont know which one of both is faster maxed out and it doesnt matter, its personal preference. But you cannot deny a higher risk = higher reward playstyle is only a failure if you take more risk than you can handle. People want to take the risk, they love the risk, they love to rage, wipe and ragequit into the next game where they get carried and keep their illusion alive theyre good enough for 2 grims… until they really are with all the experience they gathered. Dont rly know what to tell you, thats the playerbase of vermintide until you reach champion / legend (which at the moment is sometimes the same, but there are people taking it seriously)
But that is a problem of online gaming in general, and not a vermintide problem, host a game, tell everyone how you like to play it, play your tempo and kick everyone that doesnt, communication is key.

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How painful V1’s crafting system was doesn’t really concern me. I’ve crafted about 4 entire sets of legendary gear so far, and it didn’t take very much to get exactly what I wanted. There aren’t that many possibilities, and I’ve always had enough dust.

People enjoying the challenge is fine. But I simply find it strange that in a hack and slash cooperative game, that the default way of adding challenge is to spend what feels like loads of time on detours collecting items.

It’s boring. It messes with the flow of the action. It’s tedious. It’s not what I want or expected when I saw the gameplay footage and FS advertising a contest for people beating levels in speed runs. I want action. Combat. If I want an increase challenge, I’ll play on a higher difficulty. I just don’t care about collecting books.

I simply find the rewards for doing so to not be adequate to justify the disruption. I’m also frustrated that this collect-o-thon is the default, forcing me to create private games if I want to op-out.

You can tell me all about V1 or how I’m underestimating how much I’ll need or want materials, but it’s just not fun. This is a great game, but it’s just a drag to play as a casual who wants quick games when 90% of my pug games have people taking an eternity to go look for books.

Disagree with me all you like, that’s fine. But I’m just here to express my perspective on a feedback forum before I resign to the fact that maybe this game just isn’t what I thought it was.

Until I’m actually at the point where the difference between great stats and perfect stats makes a difference, I still won’t care enough to endure book hunting.

Well we all play for different reasons, we don’t see “problem” (problem isn’t right word here, but I lack to find another cose of my skills in English) always the same way. That is ok and how it should be=]

This could be good or bad. On the one hand, it makes tomes and grims less predictable and encourages more exploration of the map. On the other, players will just check all the possible tome and grim locations, and it will be ever more of a time suck because instead of checking 5 locations on the map, youll be checking a dozen or so.

Can you tell me what would you like to see? The change you would make to this system. :yum:

No offense, I mean it seriously, what would you propose.:innocent:

Even people who play only for fun, will one day want red items, they are simply end game, also cosmetic items are easier to get with emp vault.:money_mouth_face:

And even if you dont want to get better loot, people might find it challenging to look for tomes and grims, playing with low hp and no healing items.
I myself can brag how I killed legendary Halescourge and finished Skittergate before nerf and both with tomes/grims.:sunglasses:

So creating situation where it is viable to run without tomes would affect certain part of players.:thinking:

On the other hand, you can speedrun legendaries with grims/tomes in 10-15 minutes. I was witness to 2 player run on legendary who just rushed to finish with bile troll chasing them, effectively completing Against the grain mission under 10 minutes with maybe 50 kills while still getting tomes and grim along the way. :open_mouth:

They should get rainbow coloured items for this not 1mm Ranald.:face_with_raised_eyebrow:
Sooo better reward for fast runs? I dont think so.

i know where you are coming from, reds aren’t much of an upgrade from orange items, and you don’t really care about illusions or perfect stats, because the core gameplay is about killing and completing levels.

i see it as a flaw in the game design that people are burning out so quickly because they hit max item level and don’t see much progression anymore. it’s certainly something to be addressed.

for me, i like killing rats in any difficulty. i just like killing. bring me to any level, any difficulty, it doesn’t matter if we take a detour to find books, there will always be things to slice and stab at. but now the rewards are useless unless they’re cosmetic collectables or reds, so i hope they do something to alleviate that feeling.

I do find that the precision jumping for some of the books are a tad too obnoxious.

In my opinion, tomes and grimoires already to the challenges by themselves by making it that your party have to go on without healing draught, and/or medical kits.

The jumping puzzle that requires one to do it with extreme precision, and/or make the carrier having to backtrack a long distance is just adding salt to the wound.

Practice. Ye there are some bad placements, and furthermore some of the most punishing ones of the whole series. Used to complain too, now im used to them and dont tend to miss the jumps anymore.

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