I can’t take an ogryn tier list seriously that puts the rumbler anywhere below A tier, regardless of team comp, while having stubber in S/A.
Beyond that, this is an issue that essentially already happened in Vermintide with Chaos Warriors. I don’t think the issue is as binary as “It’s fine or isn’t”, they could definitely stand to bridge the gap for making carapace armor less… obnoxious. The difference between a weapon that can pierce/damage through it and one that can’t is pretty massive in general, without necessarily having trade offs. (Also an issue with Vermintide, looking at you glaive)
They don’t necessarily have to massively nerf it in general, but when you have weapons doing single digit damage numbers that’s pretty silly to me. All it does is harm potential loadout variety.
The exact solution? There’s multiple options, though IMO one of them needs to happen. EG: Bump up the lowest damage numbers/reduce carapace damage reduction on the lower end/make it a curve rather than seemingly linear, give crushers a weak point/ensure that future carapace enemies also have alternative methods of dealing with them, implement a baseline variant of rending where armor gets weakened by repeated heavies, etc. Obviously not all of them, but I definitely get where the OP is coming from in terms of sheer “This is just irritating.”
To be fair, in terms of the physics, thrusting weapons like the combat knife would work much better against plate armor than slashing weapons like the cleaver. Heavy sword barely tickles crushers too.
Pinned and seemingly mostly agreed upon by a lot of the Damnation Ogryns there. Including one group I was chatting to that does stuff like 4 kickback Ogryn party on Damnation for fun. Could definitely be a pre made bias to it but I think it’s mostly pretty sound.
HA! I was gonna mention it: "I bet it’s that 4 ogryn group that’s self promoting on reddit ‘we have the bills to prove it’ ".
It absolutely IS a pre-made bias and not helpful to 95% of the players. I dared to question the stubber’s viability on H&D and they came out of the woodwork (1 of em was OP).
Well thanks for the confirmation, it does explain a few things…
But in my experience, if you’re not in a premade, Stubber and Ripper fall way off on the higher diffs as I mentioned in reddit.
Rumbler and GGauntlet (GG) are for more useful and survivable in a rando group.
Again, if you’re in a premade with good/great players, go nuts with anything really (keep in mind regen curio bug got patched).
Edit: Oh Bull Butcher Cleaver, duh? Don’t see it referred to as BB.
BB is short for bull butcher cleaver. GG is already in S tier so it sounds like your major point of contention is Stubber, Ripper, and Rumbler not being where you think they should be. I dunno that doesn’t sound terribly misleading to me.
But with ability involved (Vet ult or Zealot ult), the Boltgun can do around 2k dps to Crushers.
I do not think that the GG can come close to that with any roll and feat combination.
Also, you do not need to use the Boltgun as a melee weapon for that.
Edited the dps number to reflect the correct value.
Even if you stack the flame DoT (or any dot) to max, it does barely any damage to crushers.
Unless you abuse the Zealot ult, the entire flamer only tickles them.
Imo the psyker flamestaff is completely fine, so i think the zealot flamer might mostly be busted due to the large mag capacity that allows to shoot for a long time without reloading, which in turn allows to very quickly stack up the DoT on any enemy that comes into range.
The psyker can only burn enemies in shorter intervals with constant downtimes for charge up.
Maybe reducing the mag capacity of the zealot flamer by about 50% would bring it down to the same level (reload is fast enough so that you can still magdump and then left click to keep the dot up).
Misleading in the sense that it’s overselling their value (Stubber and Ripper), not keen on hijacking the thread or getting into a war of egos (again).
I’ll just leave it with “take it with a shaker of salt” and consider taking into account the pre-made bias with this discord pinned tier list; it may work for them, it may not work for you (in the general sense) nearly as well.
Perhaps with crazy blessings? Without crazy blessings I’m seeing 800-1100 DPS, which is definitely still in the ballpark of the Grenade Gauntlet.
For example 840 DPS (basically equal to GG’s 846) was
Boltgun (80% Damage, 79% Stopping Power, +4% base Crit)
The Bigger They Are feat (+50% Ogryn damage)
Sharpshooter Ability
(ran three tests to average out damage a bit due to the 4% crit, highest DPS was 901)
Zealot obviously did better (hence the 1100 of 800-1100), but it wasn’t blowing Ogryn out of the water yet. But again, both test bolters had no relevant blessing so maybe that’s where things get out of control.
I get pretty consistent 1.6-1.7k dps against Crushers (damnation) with grey boltgun (78 dmg, 73 stopping) on veteran (with ult and 50% ogryn feat).
The number i said initially was to account for a 20% carapace damage perk.
Maybe you are missing a few shots. To be fair, to get that dps, i shoot from melee range.
If you have Pinning Fire (+power on stagger) at least T2 on a bolter you can single magdump a crusher without the veteran weakspot bonus or the anti-ogryn volley fire.
Yes. I mentioned it in the section you quoted. So i guess you are missing a few shots.
As you can see from the first image, the displayed DPS could be higher, if the enemy had more HP (the displayed dps is never higher than enemy hp).
Oh well that could actually be the Pyskhanium DPS display bug then. Basically someone mentioned if you aren’t looking at an enemy the calculation gets weird and can falsely display much higher.
I think if you backed up just a few steps so the healthbar was visible the entire time you’d probably end up with much closer values to mine (and roughly the same number of shots taken; I do think you’re right that there might be an odd missed shot with where I was shooting from, due to how spread Bolter CoF gets on primary spam).
Seems you were right.
Around 1.6k when i stand further away and have the hp bar on screen constantly.
Makes more sense as well, regarding the time it takes to dump the mag.
I am gonna edit the dps number in my other posts to reflect the correct dps, so that nobody is misinformed when reading it.
