I would say that is actually a vocal minority opinion from that discord. Most damnation players I’ve asked in game as well as all my Verm buddies that also play damnation mostly agree that stubber is sub-par.
It is slow to swap to, slow to start firing, has random first shot placement so you cannot consistently place your first burst on target without RNG on your side, or having an enemy in melee range. It severely hampers your movement, dodging blooms your crosshairs like crazy. If RNG isn’t on your side and the enemy inside your crosshairs doesn’t get hit, you are now in line of fire and have to decide between ducking back into cover having accomplished nothing or continue trying to hit the enemy while trading shots.
Taking stubber means you are trading AOE ranged CC and reliability for inconsistent close-medium ranged shooter clearing that is slower and less safe than pretty any other class doing the same thing. Even firing two or so grenades at spread out shooters and closing in to finish in melee is often faster and safer since the enemies are controlled.
Rumbler also gives you a unique way of taking out shooters behind cover and on balconies that you don’t have current line of sight to.
I’ve run a lot of stubber on damnation trying to learn to appreciate its strengths. The problem is I’ve also run a lot of Rumbler and GG so I’m always comparing how I could be accomplishing things better. Stubber gets its greatest value when you aren’t under pressure and can fire without concern, or if you are playing incredibly slowly and defensively. I think the slow cautious grind through levels often leads to teams taking more damage and ending up even lower on resources for events and tough situations. Once people start getting more and more comfortable on damnation I predict the sentiment towards stubber will get slightly worse. Just like how every other player used to say shield was mandatory on high difficulties, until people got better.
Topic is giving me flashbacks to early V2 threads, and maybe I’m misremembering but I think the result of those threads were stuff like two-handed hammer and flail getting buffs to super armor and also pyromancer getting the crowbill and the flaming flail and buffs to bolt staff.
I don’t see the same problem with this game, tho. Crushers are much easier to control than Chaos warriors and everyone came with anti-carapace stuff available to them. The worst rando groups I’ve been in so far still had ways to deal with Crushers yah know, if we ever survive the first room with 80 shooters that is
I appreciate that this topic has sort of devolved into Ogryn discussion. I agree that the Heavy Stubber and Ripper Gun are kind of bad. I essentially have a perfect roll Ripper Mk 2 but it’s awful compared to my 350 GG. Even if you paired the former with a rumored Gun Lugger class that doubles the ammo I still wouldn’t take it in its current state. I’d even rather take my Kickback, which needs its own buffs.
I could say so much more about the state of Ogryn weapon balance but this topic came out as anti-carapace/crusher which is one of the bigger problems IMO.
This was my suspicion as well, which is the tangential point I try make but the egos from that vocal minority come out and I get drowned out.
Stuff like this does the community a huge disservice IMO.
Far too often I see all the faults you listed for the Stubber (largely applies to Ripper too) come into play and watch ogryns perform very poorly, requiring much more babysitting that can be adequately provided.
Speaking of which, another nice thing about the Rumbler is the ability to lob a rescue nade near a team mate in trouble or someone who ran off on another floor around the corner and got pounced by a doggie. Bouncing (rescue) nades can be very handy and the aiming line is very helpful.
P.S. It would be nice if Rending actually worked on the explosion and not just the lobbed Nade projectile.
Yeah most weapons that spew damage in close range only are fast to draw and run n gun. Rippergun and stubber let you do none of those things despite having the same drawbacks. The hipfire on both gets wildly inaccurate at shot 2, bracing Stubber takes an age and it also has a trigger delay.
I don’t know why it needs to be scuffed so bad, considering the Stubber at speed can fire a burst slightly longer than an Agrip braced and with better DPS. But without the Vet or Zealot ult that totally carry those weapons and let them perform beyond what you get on the tin.
However compared to Rippergun it will at least kill shooters, and in the sweet spot of being like 15m away from an unalerted patrol actually lets you mow them down instead of the normal praying they actually aggro melee while standing around in the slot system and taking pot shots. So it is easily Ogryn’s 3rd best ranged to me, but only because all of his shotguns are unbelievably bad. Even on my most shooty days with it I never run out, which is certainly something.
Me I would raise Ripper’s ammo pool to 180, and remove the trigger delay on the Stubber because getting almost all of your toughness shot off before you start firing back by that dreg who strafed around the corner pre firing is just obnoxious. Better spread definitely.