This clip exposes exactly what's wrong with the Thunder Hammer

https://www.reddit.com/r/DarkTide/comments/1dcvep0/more_maelstrom_shovel_chopchop/

When you give a weapon self-stun, it needs to be powerful enough to justify that massive weak point. Thunder Hammer is not that - it takes an ult use and a specific high-tier blessing to one-shot a Crusher.

Ogryn? Ogryn can, as this clip demonstrates, just keep swinging, albeit with Brutal Momentum.

Still. This is not remotely balanced.

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I still don’t get it why we ended up with “foldable” shovels as weapon options in W40k game. Especially as a really strong anti-armour option. The idea by itself is just ridiculous.

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Totally agree and to add: Why are they so much better vs armor than clubs and Pmaul? Shovels should be for mutants and specialists, clubs for armor and powermaul should not still suck ass. Just my opinion though

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I’d argue it demonstrates the complete failure to balance and borderline lack of understanding of Ogryn. Notice how he goes off and rambos and isn’t punished for it? This ain’t it Fatshark

Ogryn was never meant to one-shot crushers. And no I’m not salty. I have a 549 mk5 and the build to go with. The Ogryn in the video isn’t even using it that well. If you stack them right you get 3+ in one shot. Plus it completely destroys hordes with the non-special heavy combo. It’s a cakewalk vs every other melee (besides the slab) being dogshit.

Ogryn is supposed to be cc and support and enable the damage classes to succeed. Clubs n shovel for elites, Cleavers for hordes. They completely ruined the Ogryn experience for me with the last few patches. The stagger changes to crushers and other elites just feel so bad now.

I have hope that they will fix Pmaul and the clubs, but likely they will toss in the 2hander and call it good.

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Shovels got creeped way too much on the power scale for ogryn, not sure why people run clubs and knives over even default shovel nowadays. It just does so much more of the same thing over a run, and doesn’t suffer being either mediocre on horde (club) or elites (cleaver or shield).

I will defend shovels in general as being something I did want. But whoever decided they needed this function and to turn into not-shovels for an attack should have been jettisoned. Standard issue shovel is one of my most used in the game, because its a soldier’s equipment. Entrenching tools are brutal and utilitarian at the same time. It is quite lovely to hack heretics to death with shovels.

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What’s weird to me is the reconfiguration of the shovels.

You flick your wrist and the shovel changes configuration… In reality a shovel like that requires you to unscrew a positioning nut, reposition it and then screw the nut back down…

I get it, 40k space magicka… still.

Also, I want to be on board with the massive penetration damage, but I’d like to see a sharp pickaxe side of the shovel to justify it.

Anyway, there’s some things I love, it just feels great to use. The sounds effects are very satisfying. The ogryns shovel is honestly the one that feels the most broken because of brutal momentum. Being able to drop 3 crushers in 1 swing is sort of insanity.

Edit: also, nothing about hitting something with a reconfigured shovel should cause it to fold back to its position… It’s a really whacky and annoying feature.

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Warshovel 40k

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So… We have standart human with hammer on one side.

We have some sort of hulk with giant shovel on other side.

Maybe its normal?

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Not when the Veteran’s Munitorum Mk VII Sapper Shovel also exists.

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Dont get it. Can shovel on veteran oneshot ogryns?

Yes. The Mk VII is, for almost all intents and purposes, a better thunder hammer than the thunder hammer except for the boss kill meme builds.

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Without tons of talents, blessings and circumstances?

Both the Ogryn and the Veteran needs some talents, blessings and perks to do the same thing.

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its less circumstance than the thunderhammer, with less hitstun. and significantly better mobility in terms of sprint costs and 3 more dodges with excellent move range. also there’s an Mk3 shovel, which has even less hit lag and a vertical attack, aka everything Crucis wishes it had.

but yeah by not using an ult, the thundershovels are better. all you need is to be speccing melee, which is already the best loadout they have (except gunlugger).

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Doing some number crunching, Ogryn needs a few talents to one-shot a crusher with a perfect shovel even with a crit, whereas a veteran’s perfect shovel will one-shot a crusher on a crit with no talents.

Ogryn can stack enough damage/power talents to do it without crits, and veteran still needs to rely on crits even with talents (I think taking Superiority (+15% damage vs Elites) and Bring it down! (+20% damage vs ogryns) might be just enough, but I’m not sure if talent bonuses are additive or multiplicative).

Veteran perfect shovel:

Ogryn perfect shovel:

The columns are centre mass|weakspot|crit centre mass|crit weakspot

Charged thunder hammer for comparison:

But as @MarxistDictator said, the thunder hammer has significantly more issues not related to damage compared to shovels.

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What cite do u use for calculating? In curious. Never see this before.

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Side effect of the Ogryn melee talents being so lopsided. Gunlugger can BARELY squeeze out a Crusher twoshot with the folding shovels (not very impressive DPS with the long backswing and fold time) but Skullbreaker talents can stack +100% damage on heavy attacks, putting it comfortably in the one-shot range.

That’s what should be looked at, imo. It prevents Ogryn melee weapons from being balanced normally.

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Im not guy who can say much about balance, but maybe its good that classes not equal in same sides?

I mean maybe ogryn is a bit… slow, but he definitely can survive more than 1 shot from sniper (as psyker i feel myself as osteoporosis sonic… fast but so fragile)

Ogryn shovel also needs the thrust blessing (and pretty sure it needs a carapace damage perk).

Not saying that the shovel is completely fair and balanced.
Just that you can‘t claim a specific drawback for the thunderhammer and then ignore it, when talking about the shovel.

1 Like