TLHS thread: Participation Mandatory

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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Plugging @Reginald’s video and shout out to @Mister_E and everyone else making ogryn videos and threads.

Making this one because I feel it in my bones that Bufftide 3 is coming and want to head it off with hopefully good feedback.

Alright, I hate the Twin-linked Heavy Stubber. It has a hundred problems and the biggest two not being discussed in the videos being put out by commentators (like and subscribe and comment on them) is that TLHS is balanced around Point-Blank-Barrage and Burst Limiter Override, the worst ult and Keystone combo in Ogryn’s kit. Screw that, we can do better.

No weapon should be hardlocked to a build, so in order for the TLHS to be good on all builds, it first needs damage.

Full stop you can’t get around that. All human autoguns have been per-burst out damaging the TLHS since launch. It’s bad and we need to stop ignoring how vast the power difference is between the ogryn’s no accuracy no crit 0.05x finesse multiplier .50 caliber machine gun and a standard guardsman’s 100% crit chance 3,000,000x finesse multiplier. 223 caliber submachine gun with the accuracy to penetrate the warp and Kirkify Papa Nurgle himself. It has always been Bad.

The above video has other specific suggestions that I think are sick and would want to see all of them at once at the same time.

The suggestion I have not seen discussed in video format yet: the fire delay/lag has to go. Delete it. Set ogryn_twin_heavy_stubber_fire_buffer: 0.00000 I don’t care how you do it, just do it. It’s not a balancing tool, it’s an immersion breaking frustration mechanic.

If the TLHS was ever strong enough to absolutely need a balancing mechanic out of the player’s control, it should be the usual skill-based mechanisms: accuracy, recoil, mobility. Because landing a shot and positioning are skill based, not clairvoyance… It’s a year long delay from LMB press to gun firing and the first shot won’t kill or stagger a special or elite. The only window for skill expression present is your team’s capacity to babysit you and your subpar machine gun.

If you make it good, like baseline no nonsense good, it won’t feel like it needs PBB + BLO to be good.

Also, since we’re here, PBB’s effects should be changed to fire rate, reload speed, recoil reduction, and 35% or 40% chance of free shot. The ammo situation is pretty obvious for that ult and the OP situation with free rumbler is also pretty obvious, too. Can we address it now?

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within the video context I’d go for option 2 for solving parts of the problem.

the biggest though still remaining is that it’s not a weapon for autonomous playstyle, the one you need when you play purely with randoms and can neither depend or trust in their actions at any point.

usually I rock a kit that lets me ignore who’s participating in this particular situation.

some dudes help clearing, fine, everyone doing god knows what somewhere else, doesn’t matter I’m on it myself then.

ironically I every now and then got a gungryn enjoy his 5 minutes of dakka, but thats only because I keep the :poop: off of him and most engagement from escalating.

me pulling out the clunky stubber get hit and cornered most of the time and pay in health% for an inferior method of clearing a cluster of enemies.

where’s the logic in that?

if I know im on my own again, there’s simply little time to go slow-moving-shooting when I can melee the engagement in a third of the time it otherwise takes.

then again, heavy as a .50cal may be for a human, we talk about ogryn wielding it, so it should be the same effort as the guardsman has with a lasgun.

ripper’s sadly in the same boat, was a fun weapon for some time but just not “zeitgemäß” for current spawn numbers and pace of the game.

no, don’t make the game slower, make them weapons perform faster

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Thinking about autonomy, I was going to ask if the TLHS bash attack could even stagger enemies in Havoc, but that doesn’t matter when even Auric enemies can recover from a stagger and attack you in the time it takes Ogryn to shoot :zany_face:

Unsure what to do with Ripper. I take the mk II on melee builds into Maelstrom and it feels fine-ish. Have not taken it into Havoc, yet. Gonna parrot the video and say I want better breakpoints against flak and maniac armor, but also more interaction with the melee stab (imagine if you could shoot during the stab the way bolt pistol can, not very useful, but would look sick and make Can Opener a bit more flexible). Anything to break it from the Inspiring Barrage meme would be good.

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ironically the gun “felt” best when can opener was auto-bugged on it.

adding a “slug” blessing and double the damage against carapace while not doing much to hordes, could give it the slot in an “melee for masses/ranged for boss/carapace” build

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IMO Ogyrn ranged weapon melee attacks should be viable for at least chaff killing and maybe special killing due to Ogyrn’s low weapon selection. It was a sad day when GG melee got nerfed into meme status.

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HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I’VE COME TO HATE TLHS’S SINCE I BEGAN CRUMPING SNIVELLERS IN TERTIUM. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION RATION CANS THAT I HAVE EMPTIED . IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON THE LID OF EACH OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF EMPTY RATION CANS IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR TLHS’S AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT. HATE. HATE.

Grut me! Bone ead implant’s buzzing! Smells like rashun! Why are you all looking at me like that? Did I say something to offend you?

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haven’t used dakka ogryn in ages because stubbers don’t do much against the mass of carapace the game throws at you, consume a truckload of ammo and ult takes too long to recharge. and dakka ogryn gives up talent points which are good in melee, and that’s where you get every time you try to reload your dakka tool. so it’s mostly snipe specials with gg / rumbler / kickback and bash everyone’s head in with club / pickaxe. exactly what @Reginald says, plus that scum with vraks / uzi is so much better.

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tfw i have no breakpoints and i must scream

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By the way the ogryn in the thumbnail is fat and I’m very jealous of that! I want to be a fat ogryn too.

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Dang, beat me to “id”…

hah, see, did an AM joke.

ok I see myself out guys

:face_with_tongue:

but will fatmungus still remain fat when fat ogryn shows “my 600lb life” fatness?

:thinking:

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well on this distorted belly I’m reading “the puke”

what exactly am I looking at again?

:rofl:

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I just googled fat ogryn but I don’t even know if it’s meant be a ogryn sure looks like one though.

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They should remove limb damage multipliers from this weapon and also look at most armor ADM. I don’t care about hurting crushers with guns that’s an absolute meme, but the Krourk has 0.5 to flak. That is literally half damage, and then you can also hit limbs to further reduce your ass’d damage another 25% iirc.

Also I’m pretty positive there is some issue with the spread increase on that variant, since if you crouch and don’t aim (!?) it has a much better grouping than if you do. Completely unusable.

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I want to know what the Krourk did to deserve being so uniquely bad.

Bracing being a net negative on every weapon that had it is another great mystery.

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@Reginald wants the Twin-linked Stubbers buffed so they can be more reliable in Havoc. I absolutely disagree with the approach of “Balance things around Havoc” because it makes every difficulty below too easy, which only continues the cycle of Powercreep. Darktide should be balanced around the base difficulties, not the end game mode, made for the best, of the best.

The only thing I would like to see implemented, is the increase to the ammo reserve, but not to such a degree as he suggested. Oh, and if we want the guns to have a higher armor penetration, then it could be implemented into the Point Blank Barrage. I know that every not-Rumbler weapon could use it, which would, in turn, make any other weapon than Twin-linked Stubbers actually fun to use with this ability.

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I would again like to remind everyone that heavy stubbers in 40k go up to 25mm not just .50 cal. To me the bullets in game look closer to like 17.5mm but the barrel looks like it’s 25mm. Ogryn clearly has magic bullets that expand to fill the barrel… (or the person modeling the gun made the barrels the size of the casing instead of the bullet. That really seems to be what happened)

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Honestly the biggest issue with the low damage is that it goes completely counter to the whole fantasy of a heavy stubber. The fact a heavy stubber does pretty much the same damage as the IAG just feels bad.

They should do way more damage but be incredibly inaccurate because well. That is the fantasy of slinging around a twin linked heavy stubber lol. If you shoot someone with a HEAVY stubber round it should cut them in half.

As is it just feels wrong. I would be happy with a complete rebalance of the gun over a strict buff. As is they just feel wrong.

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This just a lie. He repeatedly says that he wants things balanced around auric because it’s where most players end up.

Point blank barrage has a 15% rending node already. That’s not the issue.

Point blank barrage is actually strongest on rumbler.

No, actually, the problem is it’s an automatic gun that you can’t hit anything with, and it still does no damage. This would just make it even worse to use. It’s not about “the fantasy” of having an awful gun. It’s about whether it actually is usable to do anything more than pump rounds into a horde or a bulwark’s side or a single chaos spawn.

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He can claim that, but if he then turns around and says, in the video, that the Twin-linked Stubbers are actually fine on Auric but bad on Havoc and then proceeds to suggest some ludicrous buffs to make it better, I can only arrive at the conclusion that he wants to make it good for Havoc with disregard for how it affects the base difficulties.

I said this because from my experience the Twin-Linked Stubber with Point Blank Barrage active took way too long to kill a single Crusher in Auric, compared to the Rumbler or any melee weapon (save maybe the knives). It’s also been a while since I actually read the talents for this ability so I just forgot that it’s already there. But then it just shifts my opinion from “Put rending on Point Blank Barrage” to “Increase the amount of rending when Point Blank Barrage is active”.

What I was saying is that every weapon other than the Rumbler and maybe the Kickback have awful Carapace penetration. If Point Blank Barrage would give more rending, it could potentially make these weapons pretty powerful when it’s active, which would in-turn make Point Blank Barrage actually worth taking.