They aren’t fine in auric, you can force the achlys to work with pbb and blo and then hover up all the ammo on the map to everyone elses annoyance. The krourk is utter grutting trash! Awful accuracy poor damage bad ammo economy and when you brace it you can barely move it’s rediculous how slow you become. The gorgonum is almost as bad as the krourk. And they all suck without pbb. Ripperguns and krourk single stubber does the same thing tlhs’s does but ten times better.
I agree, which is also why I said this in my original reply:
and that goes for 99% of playing with (or rather against in some matches) randoms that either dash off into every direction but the choke point or escalate multiple engagements to where you can’t be everywhere all at once.
having a real team, as in dudes on coms that are familiar with each other, one finds the pace and spot to whip it out and do his job.
often times randos on BLO could do so cause i was melee-ing everything and its nurgle mother in the process.
me trying (for that dreaded penance no less) no one’s around by the time I whip out the gun and got 30+ enemies in my face, go figure.
faster draw time, faster movement with the gun out and a lot of those problems would be mitigated even without touching the damage, pen etc.
that is in maelstrom.
havoc 
party needs its numbers nerfed, not the weapons buffed.
All of my suggestions are based on my negative experience with the weapons in auric. This was linked in the description of my video.
“Fine" and “good” are not the same. “Fine damage” with “horrible ammo consumption” is not acceptable for auric balance.
I really want the stubbers to be good without point-blank barrage, tho.
Mainly and specifically because I think PBB needs to be changed. I just don’t see the current implementation as good for any difficulty in the game.
I would nerf PBB and buff all the weapons but I can’t see that happening soon tbh. So I’ll just aim for “better"
Okay, thanks for clarifying what you meant.
Thanks for hearing me out.
I basically just think if a gun has the ammo supply of a bolter it should hit as hard as one. That’s more or less where my ideas come from. You can buff damage and leave ammo alone or buff ammo and mostly leave damage alone.
I wouldn’t see any more guns be especially good at carapace but flak for a .50cal just vibechecks right. Also terrain penetration would make them cooler while not changing their real kill potential much so it’s not a hard buff.
apparently (and sadly) not until the devs give in and revamp havoc completely.
can’t understand for the life of me why they’re that adamant repeating the same stuff even if playtesters gave em an “idea” of how bad rotten armor for example is.
and that’s dudes on premades, imagine little ol me trying to get my eartag renewed with randoms at every reset.
The problem with havoc isn’t that its balance badly or unfair. Imo that’s fine, it’s bullbuttdifficulty with a meaningful loss rate. The problem is it also has De-Rank.
If you had a game mode with a 1% winrate but infinite tries who cares. But if you have 39 difficulties where you get 3 tries or you’re getting punished the psychological dynamic is entirely different.
In any case, I generally aim for smaller numbers changes when I suggest things rather than big reworks because one of those things seems to happen more than the other.
hence the rando playerbase gets picky and the whole thing a slog starting at the party finder.
infinite tries at freely pickable difficulty and I won’t mind 90% loss rate either
thing is given the freedom of choice and player autonomy in auric maelstrom, the whole approach to havoc is “nah aint gonna put up with that” when in the same time I get 10 am-matches recorded to fill the channel 
I don’t feel like you’re all wrong, but the current accuracy is worse than it should ever be.
You have to be able to hit what’s in front of you.
I honestly dont think the accuracy is the problem. Its the low damage, poor ammo, and relativley low fire rate combined that make the poor accuracy a problem. If you bumped the damage and ammo, maybe increase the fire rate a bit as well. Then the accuracy wouldn’t be a big deal. Accuracy through volume of fire is perfectly fine, I mean the dual auto guns manage it pretty well. Its just they have infinite ammo, while ogryn needs to eat every ammo pack on the entire map to do lower DPS.
This way you have the option of:
Dual Heavy Stubber: Much higher DPS, bad accuracy.
Heavy Stubber: Great accuracy, lower DPS.
Its a trade off that makes each a viable and fun option. Besides the rock is already there to fill in for ogryn’s poor long range accuracy so its not like the dual heavy stubber having worse accuracy would lock you out of that completely.
That is absolutely true but you gotta remember that you can sprint while shooting with them, low accuracy doesn’t matter when you can close the gap and hose enemies down point blank. Imo for your suggestion to work the movement penalty for bracing has to be completely removed which I’m not opposed to at all, standing at backlines and shooting doesn’t fit ogryn anyway he’s a breakthrough unit.
I do think the movement speed is too low for bracing currently. But I think there should be some movement penalty. Ogryn isn’t just a breakthrough, he can do multiple roles. The dual heavy stubber fills the role of fire support, standing in the middle of the team and gunning down enemies as they come. He really just needs the ammo and damage to actually do that role instead of just having a worse braced auto gun.
But then how could lil Uns see =(
you are on diet, no more eatin heretics
Ogryn tree does feel a bit outdated and lil bloated now could use some trimmin off fat and improved talents BUT weapon improvements would be the funner route you have wildly inaccurate/slow weapons they should at least hit HARD in range/melee
Dat’s snivel-talk sah! I’m doing a intuitive dirty bulk! Monumental caloric surplus sah! I’m training to become morbidly obese!
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A specimen of physical excellence, that neckbeard and beer gut! Nurgle trembles in awe and envy 
I was just laughing at that for almost a full minute 
…its still good at the 3rd watch
An Ogre..Yn