New Heavy Stubber balance - Gorgonum feels overtuned

Warhammer 40,000: Darktide Gameplay Feedback
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Been playing on Heresy, haven’t tested it on Damnation. Started with a 334-power grey Gorgonum, then got a 377 base-power that I’ve upgraded, now has Tier 3 Blaze Away, unarmoured +20%, Unyielding +25%.

Its slow rate of fire means good ammo conservation and slow cone-of-fire growth. High per-hit damage absolutely wastes anything not carapace - riflemen are not a problem whatsoever, even behind cover at mid ranges. It feels like it makes veterans redundant. I feel no compulsion to ever use the Kroruk in its place.

The only place it struggles is crowd control, but that’s par for the course with HStubbs - and that’s what your melee’s for.

The best way to balance it out imo would be to increase its recoil/aimpunch, whatever we’re calling it.

I’d like for the heavy stubbers in general to have better mechanical accuracy (smaller cone of fire and growth - ie more precise), but more, less predictable recoil - especially horizontal. It doesn’t feel good to have rounds veering several degrees off from where the gun its self is pointing.

I haven’t used the other new HS enough to form a solid opinion, but my first impression is that it’s everything bad about the Kroruk multiplied, and is practically a melee weapon due to its relatively extreme ROF and cone-of-fire growth. Probably decent for crowd control or flanking/rushing big groups of riflemen in cover, but given its abysmal damage and ability to deliver that damage consistently - not good for much else, and that’s nothing that the rippergun (or other heavy stubbers) doesn’t do infinitely better.

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You can try to make Vet redundant but still get shredded to pieces by the shooters you can’t suppress. You’re still Ogryn so an unaggro’d shooter patrol should always be bowled over and forced into melee over shooting back even if you have a better piece of equipment for the role.

Veteran meanwhile can walk into a room full of elites and shooters with a laspistol, confirmed kill, unwavering focus and counterfire tank like the equivalent of 6000 damage without dropping below 80% toughness and come out ahead ammo regen wise. Not really comparing well.

It is pretty good as an Ogryn weapon, but I’d probably put it next to Ripper 5/GG/Rumbler because the swap time is still atrocious. Its only miles better than the other Stubbers because the M1 works and its accurate, the DPS advantage isn’t that huge other Stubbers are just noise machines with a trap M1 function.

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stop nerfing things just because they are good and fun. Its not THAT good.

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I had fun as Ogryn actually being able to shoot stuff at range. Please don’t take that away. Also yeah the Achiles variant or whatever its called really sucks in comparison lol

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You can try to make Vet redundant but still get shredded to pieces by the shooters you can’t suppress. You’re still Ogryn so an unaggro’d shooter patrol should always be bowled over and forced into melee over shooting back

If there’s a group of ranged troops standing packed together not shooting, you better believe I’m unloading on them. Works best with the rippergun but the Gorgonum makes equally short work of them. And you don’t need to suppress if you can just straight take heads off. If you’re there taking a bunch of damage from riflemen in ranged combat, you’re doing something wrong anyway.

t’s what, 2 or 3 hits to kill a rifleman, and you’re going to hit most of your shots unless you’re at a really bad angle or too long a distance. And even then, it’s much more forgiving than the Kroruk in those respects. It can take down a Reaper in less than half a belt, even knocking them down, can’t remember if Kroruk can do the same. You barely have to look at Elites and Specialists to mince them.

“Making vet redundant” might be a bit hyperbolic, sure - point is it’s easily the most efficient ranged weapon for Ogryn right now, by quite a wide margin - and in my mind, makes the other stubbers redundant. I bet Flak + Elite damage bonuses on it would be mental.

I had fun as Ogryn actually being able to shoot stuff at range.

Don’t get me wrong, I do too. That’s why I’d prefer the cones of fire on the HS’ weren’t so ridiculous, but recoil increased to balance that out - so the player has the opportunity to manually compensate, rather than the gun its self just being plain inaccurate.

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Have you played the other ranged weapons? 2/3 are unusably bad for almost all of them and then 1/3 has a 50% chance of being usable or even good. Kantrael? Only MG12. Accatran are all useless. Vraks Headhunters only have 1 good varient with the right blessings. Lucius is only OK if youre using the 2 or is it the 3?

Fatshark has made some fabulous guns and r
The balance BETWEEN them is quite good both in lore and crunch across the whole. But balance within marks is all over the place. There’s NO pattern with 3/3 good marks so far.

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I dunno about overtuned, it feels like Ogryn finally has a ranged weapon that is basically on par with rifles from other classes. Though its still inaccurate enough to not reliably be able to chain one tap headshot shooters like you can do with autoguns for zealot/sharp

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Its pretty alright, enjoyed having an ogryn weapon with a bit of range to it while also being full auto.

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Played a bit more - I’m not so sure it’s a matter of the Gorgonum being overtuned, rather the Kroruk and Achlys being not great. The Achlys is definitively crap. Whatever advantages are conferred by its high ROF and ammo capacity are more than offset by its massive spread/growth, relative lack of stability and weak damage. It does decent against hordes of zombies, but little better than most other ranged options, and by nowhere near enough to make it more compelling. I want to like it, but it needs to be more accurate at the very least. Cause at its effective range, you really might as well be pulling out your melee weapon. Its model is nice though, wish it could be unlocked for the other stubbers.

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The Dmg it provides finally feels like a HEAVY stubber SHOULD be.
IT has the right fire rate to not waste ammo, even thou it somehow sometimes denies hits even on close range no matter how big the target is.

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In my opinion the Gorgonum is in the right place, it’s the first weapon that isn’t melee range type and can actually kill shooters, and it’s rather accurate.

It’s doesn’t make Veteran redundant at all, if we compare this weapon to any of the Veteran’t it’s really bad, not precise, ok-ish damage and not mobile. Also, Ogrin can’t really tank shooters, which the other replier said.

Please do not nerf this weapon, I don’t want to stay in the corner and wait till my Veteran kills all shooters, and all the room with them.

And about other Subbers, there’s no reason to pick them at all(well, even before I didn’t take them), because they are mainly built to counter the hoard and suppress, for which you have a melee weapon, and suppressing doesn’t help that much to be honest when you can just kill them.
Also, the other HS that is fast and low damage, is really bad, it’s Fire Rate is 10,75 while the Krurk is 9,09, and if we count their DPS, the Krurk is 1500 and the other one is 1419(in the average with 80 on damage).
In conclusion, this weapon is just bad, it’s worse version then Krurk, it’s the same with hoard tho, maybe worse a little because of no damage.

I, also, don’t think that this weapon makes all the other’s redundant, I still run with the shotgun half a time and the launchers are still good, but not my style.

Finally, the weapon is fine, please buff the other Heavy Stubbers, do not nerf them(please I beg you, I know that everybody plays and likes Veteran, but please give us a chance to fight in range, I am kneeling)

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I feel like the old krourk is the problem. It is so bad that we think that’s how they should feel.
Gorg isn’t too good, it feels good enough that it’s actually useful, but not so good that you wouldn’t wanna try and play with other weapons as well. Since I’d still pick my trusted kickback/ripper for damnation, but gorg feels like a great heresy weapon for variety.

Too compare it to psyker staffs, gorg is kind of our voidstrike, Achilles is now our purgatus and krourk is our trauma crap.
This means krourk has lost its purpose and niche. It used to be the go to dakka dakka but now it’s just an inaccurate mess that isn’t fun.
Achilles is also inaccurate, but it’s damn fun. I don’t care if it might be statistically inferior to krourk, it just feels more amazing. I’m grinning like a cop in a donut factory when I start shooting that thing. On malice it’s shortcomings arent as noticeable imo, making it a fun choice for those runs.

Going back to krourk after using the new ones just feels crap. It doesn’t hit stuff, doesn’t feel fun and I feel like a liability for using it.

If anything they should tweak krourk to a more manageable recoil like you are suggesting for gorg and simply leave the gorg alone, it seems just right imo.
Or.maybe give krourk some niche use that makes it stand apart, like bipod bracing. So you can only brace on cover but when you do, oooh boy. Dakka Dakka street!

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What I mean when I say Gorg makes Vet rendundant is that it’s at least as, if not more efficient at clearing enemy riflemen than any of Vet’s weapons or abilities. They’re still better at dealing with elites and specials, especially when they’re only just peeking out of cover. Point is I can go entire rounds barely using my melee weapon - even on Damnation - and make short work of situations by just sitting on a corner or behind cover and plugging away, where other weapons require a bit more aggression and creativity - and end up doing the most damage and kills (via scoreboard mod) by a significant margin, consistently.

If anything they should tweak krourk to a more manageable recoil like you are suggesting for gorg and simply leave the gorg alone, it seems just right imo.

To clarify, my suggestion is to increase (mainly horizontal) recoil for the Kroruk, but increase its accuracy and precision. For the Achlys, its recoil is already significant, and again it’d be more compelling with better accuracy and precision. All told I feel like they’d be more fun to use if they hit where they’re pointing more consistently, but keeping them pointed at what you want to kill becomes more challenging (but can still be counteracted) with them bouncing all over the place under recoil.

Bracing also seems to matter little for the Gorg - un-braced, I can just hold W and 2-tap riflemen at medium distances with fair consistency. It’s only when you’re facing a wall of them and/or multiple elites that it seems to achieve anything.

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If it was less accurate I doubt I’d use it over a ripper, personally. Medium range it’s great when you have the time to pull it out and stand around shooting for a long time, but long range and snapshots are much easier on my Veteran. At medium range if I was forced to carry a less accurate version of it I’d probably just bull rush more often than not and only pull it out regularly if my team didn’t have someone else capable of focusing ranged targets.

If it was available on my Veteran I wouldn’t use it. It’s not quick enough compared to other options. If it was available on my Psyker I wouldn’t use it. A voidstrike staff is great for dealing with groups of ranged and ranged behind cover. A good surge staff with the right perks/blessings will both stun and kill ranged shooters (including gunners and shotgunners). I think it really shines at the moment because the other stubbers kinda suck.

Just my $.02

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It doesn’t, deployment takes time, also it isn’t precise enough at long range to quickly deal with smaller targets like specials. Sure you can try tap firing it, but on hi-five you won’t have time for this. Any good vet with a good build and ranged weapon still can easily outdamage you and outshoot you when it comes to elite and special kills. Gorg is in a good place serving as the “long” range options for Ogryn. Why change that?

There is plenty of overpowered weapons: power swords, bolter, flamer, the cleave force sword, new shotguns, Mk VIII Braced Autogun (admittedly only in right hands), the autopistol. Some of them are straight broken and need work. In case cases its a a matter of blessings, in other actual weapons.

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That’s like saying a zealot with an MG12 is just as good as a vet. Its just not true. But vet’s sole role is not killing shooters anyway. They have a suite of weapons that occupy other roles and there’s no strict role balance in darktide precisely because a squad of 4 veterans or 4 of ogryns need the capacity to deal with any threat.

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I don’t recall anyone advocating for it to be less accurate. That’d just make it feel horrible. What I am suggesting is better accuracy for all stubbers, but more recoil to balance it out - especially for the gorg - and the Achlys is fine in this regard - if not recoiling a bit too much.

It doesn’t, deployment takes time, also it isn’t precise enough at long range to quickly deal with smaller targets like specials. Sure you can try tap firing it, but on hi-five you won’t have time for this. Any good vet with a good build and ranged weapon still can easily outdamage you and outshoot you when it comes to elite and special kills. Gorg is in a good place serving as the “long” range options for Ogryn. Why change that?

Again, “makes vet rendundant” is an admittedly hyperbolic statement, but not terribly far from the truth.
Don’t have to pull it out if you have it out 90% of the mission. If you meant bracing - you can do that during a slide to get into position, and in most situations you might want to with the other stubbers, you often don’t need to with the Gorg. What it lacks in precision, which is to say not much, it more than makes up for in volume - you can just keep firing at the same spot and eventually, you will hit what you’re aiming at. That’s if you make no effort to flank or close distance, and is only really a concern when at a bad angle and/or long range vs cover - and even then, you can make it work well enough. Could a veteran kill a single target behind cover faster and more reliably? Sure. Point is it’s a lot more versatile than their weapons. You can easily dismantle groups of ranged troops by holding mouse1 in their general direction. Gunners, as long as you have a somewhat clean line of fire, melt. As does any other enemy type that doesn’t use cover. It can be used to thin out hordes more efficiently than the majoirty of vet guns, and once they reach you - hey, you’re Ogryn. There’s nothing non-carapace that it struggles against, and very few situations, contexts or scenarios that change that. Long- and extreme-range engagements, where Vet definitively has the advantage, are exceedingly rare in Darktide.

These are my last 3 Damnation games
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2 vets, 1 ogryn with gorgo, 1 psyker.
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Same composition, different people and loadouts
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2 Orgyn (1 rumbler), Psyker and Vet

Can you guess who was using the Gorgo in each? Not that this is a massive sample size, nor do I have scores using other weapons to compare against - nevertheless I hope this helps illustrate the point.

And I’m not saying the overall power of the Gorg should be reduced, but I do feel it should be more of a challenge to use it effectively.

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All I see is farily average damage numbers, a good vet with a bolter/lasgun/braced can do 500k in a match. Also this doesn’t really prove much as you don’t account for the players ability to be effective. A veteran with bolter isn’t guranteed to be a hotshot doing 500k, he can also end up doing 250k dmg. Gorg is simply a very good weapon, it doesn’t mean its straight up broken OP.

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I’ve seen more damage from Rumpchads who don’t even spend 1/100th of the time shooting just maximizing the splash of each grenade. Stubbers in general should work more like the Gorgon and its very far from a top tier weapon other classes would want.

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If all heavy stubbers had the same damage profile as the Gorgon, you’d have 3 different weapons kinda on par with braced autoguns.

I just can’t see the problem OP sees.