Besides martyrdom, is there any other TH build that is worth it? Which one?
Talking blessings and talents
I’ve been running the meta stealth build but swapped in a MkII thammer with thrust and… slaughterer, I think? Its been perfectly usable on high intensity damnation. Inexorable Judgement instead of martyrdom, and I don’t run into issues with attack speed as far as I can recall.
The blessings on the curios is pretty much up to personal preference. I’ve been running one of each (except wounds) but I’m increasingly tempted to go back to 2 or 3 stamina curios.
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I tried this, it’s good too in terms of damage.
I wonder if you can turn the TH in a decent horde clearer while still being decent against elites and specials. Do you have any idea if “shock and awe” remains active longe enough to allow for a special activation heavy on ironhelm?
Also, does that blessing activate once you have killed the first enemy on a swing? or it’s only active on the next hit?
Pretty sure it activates for every subsequent enemy in the swing, so killing an enemy then trying to quickly special heavy shouldn’t be a consideration.
That said it’ll only affect your stagger cleave, which does help with control but won’t help you kill faster.
That’s kinda the problem with shock and awe, you’re better off just using Slaughterer to up both your damage and stagger cleave at the same time. You’ll kill faster and you’ll still get a nice boost to how many things you can control per swing at the same time. It also helps you chain kill elites with special lights and heavies on top of that. I like the idea of the niche it’s trying to fit into but it probably needs to be reworked.
Might also need to unshackle T Hammer from mandatory thrust to have anyone take a second look at a horde clear blessing.
Edit: Regarding your initial both Thrust + Slaughterer or Thrust + Head Taker is probably just about all you’ll see competent Hammer users bringing.
Martyrdom is debatably pretty mandatory on Ironhelm for consistent breakpoints if you don’t want to have to Ult every time you want to one shot a crusher, but Crucis can get away with IJ.
Perks Carapace + Unyielding probably, or second perk can probably be preference depending on achievable breakpoints with your specific Mk and Keystone.
I like FotF for the attack speed and still good enough boss burst. I’ve just never been a right tree/stealth fan regardless, but mostly left tree with some strategic dips into middle and right along the way feels right with T Hammer for me.
I will be blunt here- Martyrdom is worst for hammer and in general. Since it’s not Vermintide, you are more punished for loosing wounds than you are rewarded due to bleed damage through toughness mechanic and loosing all bonuses from Curios. You should always play as best as you can - meaning not getting hit/loosing wounds.
In my opinion as someone who runs Auric with Zealot as his main: Momentum (Judgement) build is way better for Thammer (though I am not big thammer enjoyer). Here is my build I use:
Now, why like that, some key points:
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Momentum becasue it’s easy Attack Speed, Damage (both melee and range) + dodge distance and it doesn’t punish you for playing good (meaning - not getting damaged). It’s easy to trigger constantly (just run around).
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2x FoF obviously for free crit power attack from Thammer - you can two-shot Damnation bosses with it on weak spot crit hits with this build.
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Throwing knifes since they are awesome, allow you to take flamer if you want and can OHK specials/gunners in head and help with killing packs of maniacs in CQC, by throwing in between melee hits.
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Standard tanking stuff that will trigger everytime you use FoF - Enduring Faith and Invocation of Death for CD reduction. Duelist for even more burst damage on weakspot and crit hits (2 shotting bosses is tight)
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We also go Second Wind for toughness regen per dodge (better imo and more consistent than Retributor’s Stance)
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Thy Wrath be Swift becasue it prevents hits from turning off our Thunder Hammer charge before we use it.
I recommend giving it a go.
Obviously pair it with MK II as it’s better thammer by a mile with Headtaker and Thrust (2 shotting bosses), carapace + unylding.
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I thought shock and awe was just like extra cleave. How come you don’t hit (and hurt) more enemies with it? Also, doesn’t the activated heavy add a bit of extra damage to the heavies? I never tested that actually, I’m asking all this assuming you get something useful out of it against horedes.
Im trying it with slaugtherer and headtaker, perks on carapace and unyielding.
Another illusion of choice, yep.
Unfortunately this is truth. Like someone said, you kinda need it with ironhelm but its no good. I don’t know why was that hard for FS to give martyrdom a unique mechanic of no toughness and temporary health vermintide style.
I was trying two build with TH, one for mixed hordes and crits with ironhelm and one for boss killing with crucis. Do you think that FoF is that much better against shroudfield for boss killing?
Yeah guys can’t say I agree there whatsoever. Martyrdom is the strongest keystone by an absolute mile. You’re Zealot, you have ten million safety nets and it’s not like you have to play on literally 1 HP to benefit. Martyrdom is already smoking the competition at like 4 stacks on most weapons.
I’m not explaining it great sorry. Here is the damage cleave profile for Crucis heavy attacks from the damage calc:
So from the 6th enemy onwards you’re doing 33 base damage (before buffs obviously). Shock and Awe will let you hit more enemies but it doesn’t change how little damage you’re doing past the first few enemies cleaved. Meanwhile Slaughterer/head taker being a power (or strength as they call it now) bonus is letting you hit more enemies while increasing the damage you’re doing at every point in your cleave. And strength bonuses also multiply with damage bonuses, of which you have a LOT in Zealot tree.
Hence shock and awe is pretty bad value by comparison in basically every circumstance. Hope that explanation was a bit clearer.
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Improved the damage of the Heavy Relentless attacks:
- 1st target attack power distribution from {150,300} to {180,350}
- 2nd target attack power distribution from {80,160} to {100,200}
- 3rd target attack power distribution from {50,100} to {75,150}.
That chart is a bit out of date but yeah power blessings. At this point I don’t even know if thrust is worth, quick power up smash heavy and a couple lights is death. And if slaughterer and headtaker are at max usually just the heavy.
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Cheers for the correction. Don’t suppose there’s a more up to date damage calc people are using?
Shock & Awe is the blessing I really wanted to love, that I hoped so much from it, and that is a pure disappointment.
I would advice to pick something else if the objective is to increase the cleave. So a blessing that increase power.
Power is always good as it also increases cleave.
That is absolutely false. I don’t want to sound elitist at all, but I am kind of person who always follows meta in games and how meta changes and if you talk with anyone who is doing Auric Mealstorm or solo Auric or generally has few thousand hours in this game - they will all tell you (you can also find YT videos on it) that Martyrdom is worst (Darktide Discord has a lot of meta data if you want to check and people posting solo/duo Auric runs). There is no way to avoid on Auric to get damaged. You have situations where you have like 5+ bombardiers and 5+ flame thrower guys who instantly kill any Matryrdom build and your 120sec cooldown immortality is waste of points really as you should not go down on Auric in first place since it can snowball whole match. Playing at last Wound is literally being liability to your team. Momentum Thammer build can already 1-shot Crushers and 2-shot bosses so there is dimishing return to trying to get more damage. You better live longer. No matter how much % damage reduction you have, as long as thoughness bleed mechanic exist - it’s not Vermintide 2 with temp HP Zealot level.
I am not biased here, becasue if Matryrdom was meta, I would run it. I just try to always be up to the meta in every game I play. I just like to know whats best and what is not and if patches changed it.
Now, obviously anyone can play as he wants but Matryrdom was always worst Zealot build for highest difficulties, HI + Shock etc. becasue you will get hit, fire kills you instantly, bleed damage will occur. Martyrdom also leads to bad behaviour like not using healing stations/stims etc. casue “moar damage”.
I mean, I can see Martyrdom working fine on Damnation, sure. You get like what - max 4 Crushers and 4 Maulers as most “oh s***T” situation? You are still better with Momentum or Piety.
It’s also about consistency. Momentum and Piety are consistent and you are not punished for playing best you can. I often have matches in Damnation where I finish match with taking like ~20 damage whole game. Martyrdom would actively punish me for playing best I can.
But on Auric Maelstorm with modifers? Nope.
Again, anyone can play as he wants and if someone is God tier on Martyrdom - good for him. But objectively Shroud > Piety > Matryrdom is how meta is shaped. Can Chain Axe work and give you win if you are good enough? Sure. But it’s not Dueling Sword or Combat Blade. It’s situation like that.
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Don’t forget that you can take holy revenant and also use an other keystone.
That is true. But, I had always the feeling that you cannot avoid to get hurt with TH and that martyrdom has, at least, an attack speed bonus interesting.
For me, piety is the most powerful keystone, but inexorable judgment is just behind it.
But, I would say that I would not run an other keystone than martyrdom with an hammer.
I have same experience, but never with an hammer… and only with a toughness critical orientated build.
(and not as good result as you seem to record… I take more than 20… yesterday I did one where I recorded something close to 100 damages on auric histg. And also I tend to do also errors… so this is not all the time that I play well like that without errors).
I’m assuming you meant Inexorable/momentum?
You mean two nodes that basically make you immortal? That bad players skip? Green stimms add another security layer here to, especially for Marty. Until Death+Holy Rev is transformative, and the ~permanent Marty buffs, find a fire barrel or hug a pox early on to lose 3 wounds, even 4. Marty also requires not doing silly things like healing 1-4 wounds at meds.
Still an odd take though not too uncommon, Marty (+FoTF) is the strongest keystone overall, requires proper build and prerequisite nodes OFC, but still, odd take.
Marty is more consistent, big fat buffs are always up if you properly lost some HP. Constant dmg, AS AND TDR? Great cubed.
It’s a melee powerhouse.
Uh…
Oddly enough, Chain Axe works best on marty with the constant,consistent buffs. Duelling Sword is…yeah, we all know what it is. DS makes many conversations somewhat meaningless. But take the humble Combat Axe for instance and compare.
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This is exactly the kind of control (and skill) that works well with Martyrdom.
The health you lose to get the buffs is not from careless chip damage. You deliberately stand in fire (etc) at the start of the mission and then you work hard to avoid any further hp loss – you can’t afford to lose any. You are not punished for playing well, you are rewarded for flawless play.
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That’s not how optimization works also “work hard to avoid furher HP loss” is what every build does so it’s kind of nonsense to put it only to Matryrdom. Also “deliberately stand in fire” is not something I would ever do on Auric Maelstorm unless I’d like to grief. But meta is what it is and matryrdom place didn’t change in meta in last year, so it doesn’t matter what I say here since meta is beyond me. It’s just math and statistic.
Besides anyone who do not believe that can hook with Darktide Discord and talk with peple who live and breath meta with thousands of hours (way more than me) with videos to back it up and noone will tell you that Matryrdom is not worst of 3 Zealot options.
I encourage anyone to do his own research on this instead of relying on empiric evidence only.
I am curious about this statement.
Do you think that martyrdom is the best with hammers (something I agree) or do you claim that it is the best keystone (something i disagree totally)?
In my experience, fury is the best. I have close to 90% of my builds that are critical (right top part TDR), and in them 75% use fury.
Inexorable judgment is great… or with a high critical rate weapon, or in a non critical template.
But in my experience, martyrdom is a giant damage boost, a good melee speed increase, the possibility to not take any medicae in a mission BUT a giant risk to end on floor one or several times.
With critical builds I don’t experiment such problem. And more if I take holy revenant nodes.
I have just completed the penance 10 missions in a row without dying on auric and it was with a critical build (and I believe I can improve yet the build).
Martyr does not give enough TDR to be really confortable, in my opinion.
The problem with such assumption is that it is self maintained… cause nobody will test other options. You restrict the number of weapons to only the meta, and also the number of builds.
And you encourage people to take such builds that are strong but not always the best if you don’t know how you have to play them.
I wish FS would balance things, and so nerf the so called meta (= OP). But I guess it won’t happen. At least they should buff all weak weapons to the “meta” level (yes it will trivialize the game, but who care considering where we are?)
I think people who have few thousands hours in Darktide and tons of Auric solos can be a pretty good authority in telling what’s better and whats not (and I am not talking about me but people who are better at game than I am).
Keep in mind - for such people it doesn’t matter whats meta - they don’t care, as long as it’s meta. If Matryrdom was best, they would all run it casue for them efficiency = fun. They don’t run stuff for sh*t and giggles, only for results. Tryhards just run what’s best. If that changes - they are first to adapt and not attach to anything. It’s just numbers for them.
Here is good video start for it (I don’t say you have to agree 100% with it but it’s coming from people having tons of Auric solos and true duos and few thousands hours of gameplay in Darktide so you can take it as good start): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yO7ZFKhANI&t=5394s
The problem in your statement is that you talk to a full board of players that have hundred of hours of auric… even more sometimes.
yes, soloing auric is impressive…
But still, I think that they are few that really test and a lot of followers.
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Then they would know that.