If you read my posts, I don’t think martyrdom is the best. However, for hammers (and this is the topic), I really think it is.
Sure, if it works best for you, run it.
last reply cause it starts to be a dialogue.
I rarely play TH. I suck with them, and I don’t like the slow weapons. I mean here that I am far from what I can do with a combat axe by example.
I like when it is fast. However, I tried with inexorable judgment and it was pretty bad.
But you did not answer. What do you think is the best keystone with a TH? Cause this is the topic.
I don’t see fury as good with a TH (really too slow) and inexorable judgment would not really improve it. But maybe you have a better theory. (you and not a discord guy… I hope you can have opinions)
(and sidenote… the mods enhanced description give you more informations than the video you linked and let you do your own conclusions…)
In general, yes, maybe excluding DS and knife some, which muddy the waters. I should preface it with saying I haven’t played with hammer much lately but..
Besides the damage and TDR, Attack Apeed (AS) not only impacts overall DPS, and crit rate as you’re fishing for more crits, it has an added bonus of safety for medium and heavier slower weapons too, like evisc, tham, crusher.
Landing (heavy) hits faster and more often means all the good things besides raw DPS, like killing the mob first, landing the staggers/CC first etc.; safety net boost Add FoTF on top of Marty AS and profit.
Marty can turn an OK weapon into a great one far more than the other 2. Or just take a DS and forget other weapons exist.
Eh with Until Death+Holy Rev+Green stimms, risk is greatly reduced and the benefits far outweigh any risks. Most if not all situations that would floor a marty would usually floor another build.
There’s also a higher skill ceiling which is a lot of fun with Marty but I wouldn’t recommended to newer players or those that just slapped whatever nodes together along the way to form a tree, there may be a higher skill floor too.
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True with all slow weapons. And that’s why I love the zealot talent tree. Cause all keystones are great.
DS and daggers are well balanced in a game that get more and more OP weapons. I would hate that they nerf only melee weapons… it would make all ranged weapons (and so veteran and psykers) really too powerful.
They just need to buff all weak weapons (and there are few of them now as they keep buffing everything)
Well, I understand what you say, but in my opinion critical builds are above. It may come from the weapons I love (CA, DS, Dagger MK IV (I hate shroudfield build), Evis (critical build is really good, but martyrdom is good also)).
Tact axe I play it sometimes, but I feel this weapon is weak. Same for chainswords.
And chainaxe, I don’t understand the damage chart, and I don’t want to learn it by heart… sometimes you should use heavy, sometimes light swing is better…
TH / crusher / shock maul / HS / Catachan swords, are really weapons I play rarely cause I don’t really like them.
Thanks for answering… anyways, on TH, I would not use something else than martyrdom. Cause this is the only keystone that can give you a constant increased attack speed for it.
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Good lord, I watched a few seconds and it’s best on mute with CC, trigger warning.
Putting Taunt as OP tier and bull charge on “A” tier on their chart is an interesting take. I already watched too much.
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What I’ve seen convinced me that I missed nothing by not taking advices from these guys…
And when I think that there are players that will follow that without even thinking or testing… I cry.
After trying a few different things I agree that the TH with martyrdom is not that good, you’ll get hit and while playing auric or higher no survivavility talent is enough, high chances you are going down at some point. Martyrdom works best with fast and high mobility weapons.
It doesn’t seem to be many decent ways of building TH really considering the mandatory or useless blessings it has.
Eh, I’d say they opened it up a lot more…and running thunderhammer with either of the +impact nodes is a lot safer than any chain weapon marty to me.
But for real unless you are still committed to goofing bosses, the thunderhammer is way more build friendly than before. Absolutely there are a couple turd blessings but it could be so much worse (like 8 useless blessings on bully club.)
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I know you said ‘besides Martyr’, but, I figured I’d place my build in here and explain it’s reasoning’s, and you can decide for yourself if you care to run it or not.
It’s basically a variant on Invis Zealot that focuses entirely on damage, say as much in the build description but I just wanted to see ‘what happens if I just take every damage nod’. Turns out, it honestly works really well, I’ve rand this on Auric damnation and never once felt like a ‘burden’ or like the team was carrying my lack of wave clear.
With the Curcius II you can heavy attack the wave for some pretty decent damage, or just light attack spam specials to beat them to death rather effectively. Disdain + Head Taker and Sustained Assualt make up for the none charge damage and let you still knock your way through crowds rather consistently, while charge into light attacks for any ‘small caliber’ specials to more often than not 1 shot them (or, if they live due to low Martydom/low stacks of other things at the time, just light a few times and they will die after that, this most often happening for mutants or a token Scab Rager). Full charge heavy into any large unit (Mualers and Ogryns) and they will be deleted, full stop. Especially if you’ve been managing a wave before hand. Feels rather nice, with flame grenade to further help with the wave clear.
The real ‘star’ of the show is actually the shredder pistol though, it makes up for all of your lack of survivability with Inspiring Barrage. The gun itself is basically just used as Toughness regen, dumping a mag/half a mag for toughness when you need it, with panic invises to allow you to do so. I know most want their other cooldown talents, but with a build like this you only NEED invis against Monstrosities, otherwise Marty’s Purpose with high wounds will result in ‘cooldown when you need it’ in a pinch, so that’s basically the main thing I’d state:
Use invis re-actively with this, your build will naturally get you to the point of blowing up everything, focus on casting invis at the start of an engagement to get the first cleave to nuke the wave/blow up a large unit like a crusher or bulwark, then focus on staggering and heavying your way through with the token charges to nuke everything. When you notice your toughness getting low or start losing health invis instantly, pull out the shredder, and shoot yourself back to full, then get back at it.
You could also sub out the shredder for a braced IV with inspiring + Ceasless for a similar effect, I just use shredder for Blaze away and the quicker reload/pull out time (as it’s also your main way at dealing with trappers that isn’t just go invis and run after them), both should work though as you take anoint in blood to allow them to do well.
Other than that, Undying and restoring faith keeps your ‘cool down’ relatively constant, and I’ve 1 shot demonhosts/80% health’d monstrosities with this. I personally think nothing beats going invis, running up to a beast of nurgal, and popping their zit for basically all of their HP and that’s WIHTOUT stacking anything before hand. It feels rather good, and you just naturally 1 shot anything else you need to while in your standard gameplay loop otherwise, so I’ve rather liked this build a lot and think it works rather well, with a high top end (stacking Duelist before invis and having hy Martyr stacks) while still having a very functional low end so you feel like being at low HP isn’t required, it’s just nice.
But yeah, it’s the main build I run around with, up to you if it’s to your playstyle though!
Stalwart feels really nice, and while hammer don’t benefit a whole lot from crits, not running invocation with any weapon gonna make the build suboptimal by default. Having fotf up every 10s, enabling you to play way more aggressive rather than having to tiptoe around fire and dreg ragers, more than makes up for the lack of martyrdom dmg stacks.
Stalwart is really good. But I am not sure with the thunderhammer.
Wdym, it is literally for running invocation with non-crit melees. Once you can reach ~50% crit, enduring faith is enough.
I don’t think you’re wrong but I do think forcing every weapon into a crit template is phenomenally lame.
Martyrdom gives you what you want most, a heap of attack speed and raw damage to multiply with T Hammer’s power blessings. Yeah it’s less safe but consistent breakpoints are great and attack speed does still function as a survivability increase.
Realistically you can play T Hammer successfully with all three keystones but personally if I’m not playing a finesse weapon I relish the chance to not do cookie cutter crit stuff.
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Function over form, not incorporating invocation into your build in some shape or form is doing yourself a disservice. I have no trouble keeping up with martyr hammer dmg output simply because of how much more aggressive I can play without that poorly designed keystone.
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As I said before:
Personally I’ll give up invocation sometimes if it means I don’t have to warp my whole build around it and get to play with some different stuff.
Honestly been thinking about making a post specifically about Zealot cooldown talents. Easily the wonkiest parts of Zealot tree. I also question why they even set a cooldown at 30 seconds to begin with if they plan to give us an easy way to bypass 2/3 of that. Getting very off topic here though.
I don’t disagree with your suggestion for how to run T Hammer regardless.
I know and you are right, invocation is way overtuned, and should have never made it ingame the way it is, as it will simply render any build not including it with at least around 20% CC suboptimal.
However, regen is also the way to balance the spammability of class ultis, and all flat reductions should be changed into, so it doesn’t scale linearly with density. After that, it is just a matter of adjusting the numbers.
In this case, 200% is way too high.
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Bit of a noob question here (psyker main), but does Swift Certainty have any effect on Duelist and Second Wind or do the dodges only count if you evade melee damage? Looks like a pretty effective build
@IGN_Vera Would be cool but no it does not.
Swift Certainty lets you ignore the stamina requirement for evading ranged attacks from outside of your front 140° arc while sprinting.
Dodging is a separate mechanic with a separate flag for procs. They can be vs melee or ranged for proccing those talents.
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Ok so the dodges to proc those talents have to be deliberate timed dodges. Still, I’ve always gone Fury as Zealot but this build looks good, Swift Certainty looks like it tanks a lot of potential ranged damage
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