Sure, I also agree with Incan’s statement. I do think what currently in the mod is restrictive for GS and constitutes a nerf it doesn’t deserve, which is my primary issue. I don’t think that can be fixed by tweaking headshot thp.
My suggestion would work just fine with Greatsword. Apparently it would be “grossly overpowered”, as if thp on cleave wasn’t already with Greatsword. It’s not like that’s the exact reason I chose it over Mace & Sword for Merc Cata true solo or anything…
also again apologies for not providing details on the current solution we’re working on because I don’t wanna like, say a thing for that to not be the case a couple hours later lmao
what we’re working on though should resolve things on both ends(?) or at least that’s the hope
Idk if it’s possible, but it’s extremely unlikely to talk FS into such a change. At least I think it would be.
@alsozara Dunno if you missed it, halting THP decay on hitting enemies should make Greatsword feel good against large packs of CWs with any THP talent.
Thanks for the reply. Can I ask why that is? I’ve never interacted with Fatshark directly so I don’t know what they’re like.
II’ll have to take your word for it. I think greatsword is a good weapon but grossly overpowered is definitely not a description I’d use for it, even regarding its temp health generation with cleave. Obviously I don’t have your experience with it, especially not in true solo environment. I do find the suggestion that it’s in any significant way better than mace and sword pretty eyebrow raising. You may well be correct but I think you’d be extremely hard pressed convincing any significant portion of the playerbase of that view. I personally don’t think there’s an issue with it generating some decent thp against groups of CWs without headshots. That’s not really a possibility with the options currently in the mod.
I’ve said my piece though and I don’t think we’ll reconcile this difference of opinion further. Ultimately it’s not just down to you and me though so we’ll have to see what the wider sentiment is.
Generally with balance stuff FS would probably not want to implement stuff that takes too much man hours to do. I think this mod in general changes alot more stuff than the Weapon Rebalance in terms of man hours, so having to change the GUI would probably not be advisable (especially cos they probably would have to get a seperate GUI person to do it and from the little I’ve looked I don’t think it’d be the easiest to do).
Bit of a strawman. I didn’t say it was better. I said I chose it over Mace & Sword because it had silly levels of thp generation.
Edit:
You find the suggestion that is has better thp generation than Mace & Sword eyebrow raising? One can’t cleave armour though. On top of that Greatsword has immediate damage cleave on lights while Mace & Sword is restricted to L3 & L4 & the Push Attack for decent damage cleave and the heavies, none of which cleave armour or shields well.
Yeah you’ll see I edited that because I realised I worded that badly. If you still think that’s a misrepresentation I’ll just remove that section.
Also again not against nerfing cleave thp generally. Just think it covers bases better if we’re forced to pick 3.
Just a feeling, honestly. I couldn’t say for sure either way.
It depends what enemy type. In general, M+S is better thp because mace and sword each make thp.
You only get 2 thp on armor though. Idk how many armors GS can hit tbh.
No, I just think it’s more than compensated by other factors if comparing the weapons generally. I think it’s ok for GS to have that to some extent for its relative speed. You’re certainly not going to get nearly as much thp as M+S when spamming a boss or several elites. GS needs density to achieve that which doesn’t tend to get to those kinds of levels below Cata. Also I feel like it’s Merc specifically that pushes it over the edge if anything.
though again again very fine with it being toned down.
It’s got a higher max vs hordes but a lower max vs the things Merc struggles against in true solo, which aren’t hordes (mainly massed ambient elites). We can make arguments for teams but in true solo specifically Greatsword’s thp generation is more useful.
It hits 3 CWs/4 SV by default on Cata 1 without power boosts.
I chose the Greatsword because of it’s silly thp generation. I never said Greatsword itself was op. I was pointing out that my idea wouldn’t suddenly make Greatsword have insane thp it doesn’t already have access to (would be better when fighting less than five enemies but who cares? That’s already easy). I used Mace & Sword because it was the obvious example. What’s the problem?
Edit: Made quote up to date.
Several elites? Mace & Sword can hit two.
Sure. I never personally said that though…
I feel like at this point we’re arguing semantics more than anything. I certainly didn’t want to turn this into a M + S vs GS thread. Let’s see what the modders come up with and go from there yeah?
Fair enough.
One thing I’ve never quite inderstood is why THP on cleave generates THP on single enemies.
Granted, they’re technically being cleaved, but I think it ought to start at the second target.
As a quick idea I remembered someone else coming up with, why not thp on damage dealt, limited to the first target hit, instead of thp on kill? That would replace headshot thp for me entirely, since you’d get more thp on headshot than on bodyshot with it anyway, and it wouldn’t always encourage light chaining (you’d only want to use your optimal attack for the context).
Probably would be hard to balance though I think? But at the same time more consistent than thp on kill is.
Criticisms first, compliments last
On THP
- Everything is the same.
- It’s not thematic for everyone outside of Huntsman, Shade, WHC, or Pyro to have THP on headshot/crits.
- It’s not thematic for everyone outside of FK, RV, or IB to have THP on stagger.
- Removing THP on cleave is unnecessary and deserves to be a choice on melee/frontline careers that don’t focus on control.
- The sameness/lack of class differences feels like pre-patch 1.6 THP talents
Just seems like a huge overhaul when the only thing wrong with the base game were the talent choices for Huntsman, RV, and BH, and also how much THP + DPS BW was getting with flamesword (which is because Heavy 1 is considered a shield slam when it probably doesn’t need to be).
I know this forum hates THP on cleave, but saying no one should have it is going to come with its own problems. THP on kill is competitive by default and I’m not looking forward to the acid levels in QP when so very few weapons really benefit from THP on stagger; also getting stuffed into THP on headshot and then get shafted by ping + wonky hitbox detection sounds like the worst.
I can’t tell if Healshare being on necklace would be better for the game or not. Definitely takes the meme-novelty away from being as Medic RV or Ethical SoTT builds. But also gives classes more THP choices than they probably should.
On Stagger Row
- Somehow even more samey than vanilla.
- Anti-thematic placement of Assassin on way more classes than it should.
- EP on the left >:[
- The Level 20 talent row’s existence (Ok that’s more of a personal problem).
First, I don’t feel like it makes sense for heavy frontliners like Merc, Slayer, SotT, and Zealot to have access to Assassin. I know I mentioned how headshots can be a pain in the butt earlier, but for players/builds/weapons where headshots are easily achievable, you just buffed these classes when no buff was needed.
Second, y’all hate crits. Y’all hate crits, a lot. It’s fine, but the bias of removing as much critical interactions from Shade and WHC seems kind of on the forefront with the latest mod realm balance initiatives. You could leave Assassin on the two classes it belongs on, but just tone down how much power it gives since it never really needed to be 40%.
If buffing Enhanced Power to 10% didn’t create any new interactions, than buffing it at all seems unneeded.
I know Mainstay is a legitimately bad talent that loses to the vanilla Enhanced Power, and I get why it was deleted in the mod. But it has to stay and it needs a creative buff to make it worth anything.
Bulwark buffs makes complete sense.
[rant] I don’t actually want to come off as being harshly critical of the mod because the Lvl 20 15 Row’s existence is Fatshark’s fault, it shouldn’t even be in the game. I’ve seen people on this forum and elsewhere gripe repeatedly about too many characters OP because of this and that and too many careers being able to insta-kill specials and elites and they’re right. Way too many careers can hit all of the breakpoints. The only breakpoint that’s still sacred is the one where you can stagger Chaos Warriors out of an overhead, and that’s it. Delete the level 20 row and you “fix” that, instant toning down of everyone. If some careers really, really, really should be able to reach those kill-everything in 1-2 hit breakpoints, than it needs to be a talent or passive. [/rant]
I like how Unchained finally has talents that fit her career/role. I didn’t hate how shields couldn’t instantly fill 180 hp worth of white health from bashing into hyper density. And THP on kill being evened out didn’t seem so bad, either.
It’s not thematic in game either. Talents were literally placed at random. As for cleave, it should be coming back soon. We were getting feedback based on some redundancies with kill. Feedback mostly negative and with good reason. As for assassin affecting crit. Nah. I get being upset. It’s a lot of power to lose but it’s way too OP.