Now we have no way to trust that do we? For some reason you guys never did anything wrong and always feedbacked the correct things but FS decided to do something else.
If only we’d have a way to confirm and not just ‘trust me bro’. I and other people would be inclined to believe you. As it stands you’re part of the problem and no way to prove otherwise.
If it comes with SB nerfs sure, otherwise please dear god no. Clubs are perfectly fine as is on melee builds (Mk 1 bully still my personal go to), more wanton power creep is the last thing the game needs in its current state.
Sorry I know a lot of people are jumping on you and it’s not my intention to lay in, just concerned with the general direction of game balance pushing the players to be more and more powerful.
Mk1 and Mk2 are objectively worse than the MK 3 and need to be buffed. The 1 is incredibly mid if not bad, and the 2 is just a worse version of the 1.
2 is bad I admit. I was perfectly happy using 1 before the Mk 3 buff and still am 
Depends on where your personal goal posts for “good” are. Being out competed doesn’t mean something is bad relative to the actual game content.
Does the SB tree do a fair bit of heavy lifting? Yeah, which is why I said buff away if that gets toned down, but if that’s staying as is I think the current power level is preferable to risking FS potentially turbo buffing something else. They don’t have the best history of nuanced balance changes.
I agree, but I still think the MK1 Club is bad.
I think the problem is that baseline, most of the weapons are so utterly crap and abysmal, have no access to Slaughterer-style blessings and so on, that they need all the stacked heavy bonuses of the left side of the tree to be useful.
That obviously creates a problem with weapon balancing, and with talent tree creation and balancing, where most of the weapons are wet noodles unless you full commit to the melee build(s).
It’s just bad design and balancing all round when it comes to Ogryn.
Yep, spot on.
Yeah I don’t disagree with any of that. Was really just expressing that I think that clubs being bad on non SB loadouts is preferable to more power creep, assuming we have to choose one, which is often the case with FS. I completely agree that normalising the power from weapons vs tree on Ogryn is the best long term approach.
Yeah, and I suppose all things are relative - but if other weapons/classes aren’t reigned in, I don’t particularly think even something like a Mk3 club is… all that impressive. Even that could use a boost, or just more useful blessings. But yeah it should happen in combination with a rework/rebalance of the whole Ogryn talent tree.
Ogryn melee is in such a state I can’t bring myself to play the class. Not big on spamming heavies all day every day
Also yeah crucis thammer has drawn the short straw and needs help
It gets old real quick.
I mean yeah that’s a whole other discussion. Not sure what light attack centric weapons are meant to do with Ogryn tree but I am getting a bit wary of just how off topic we are getting at this point 
I wonder if someone thought the light refresh on one of the optional heavy nodes was supposed to be how light weapons work. But… no.
Yeah thammer sucks, but I don’t think it’s too off topic to talk about how other things need balancing too. Or that we’re seemingly no longer getting balance updates at all.
Ironically, Ogyrn is the only class that gets base class passives after the overhaul. I guess you could also count Vet’s cover peak thing, but I don’t think anyone knows it exists.
Giving Thunderhammers (or at leaat the Crucis) a garunteed overhead strike when charged like the shovel always getting an overhead when engaging the pick mode will go a long way of making it better.
To each their own, I’m still swingin’! Then again I was a TH zealot fiend at first so maybe there is something wrong with me
I was so hopeful they would introduce this after the chain axes got it!! The sideways thunder swing does have a wonderful feeling when you’re spinning and smiting, but an overhead smash (and potentially a bit of splash) would be a lot more practical. It’s a HAMMER after all.
Veteran has no passives. Zealot has 150% stamina regen speed still, and Psyker has 2.5% more crit rate. Substantially more gameplay-impacting than the goofy stance thing (which I’m pretty sure mods can let other characters do too).
These are just base stat differences like, base Toughness/Health, stamina, Stamina regeneration delay etc…
Ogryn gets Tough Skin which is a whopping 36% TDR and 20% HDR. They aren’t nearly in the same ballpark.
You mean like how damage reduction is a passive buff? They’re all differing numbers, yes. I didn’t even mention Ogryn directly here, only that Veteran is absent from having any class passive. Aka, any sort of number buff.
Yeah, all classes have pretty differing values on the stats I noted and more.
Ogryn is the only one where I would consider an actual hidden passive (considering that it’s basically stronger than a keystone).
Otherwise, yeah Vet is pretty much at the bottom in base stat distribution.
Which is definitely your own opinion on what passives/buffs are (already nauseating) and not relevant to what class passives would be. Which would be any net positive buff invisible to players either through bad UI or just not being explained. Which both Zealot and Psyker would fall under, while Veteran has no buffs to mention (what I was talking about before this weird insert).