You know, you could have all agreed to disagree 50 posts ago.
To the OP: there are at least the different people with abundant experience arguing against you. At least accept that natural bond has value to them, even if the effect may be purely psychological. Some things on Vermintide are playstyle preference dependent. It may be that the trait has no value to you because it doesn’t mix with your style. You can stop arguing because you won’t convince them. And you will not convince anyone else because nobody will read through 100 posts.
To the rest: you can also stop arguing. You won’t convince him either. Some things will be considered weak or useless because it doesn’t click.
Seriously, I recommend you to simply agree to disagree. You know, you could spend the time with beheading rats.
I could never consider myself a Dawi Drengbarazi if i quit easily .<
…
Jokes aside, the more crazy balance you see in Fatsharks posts that comes from “Community Feedback” the more worried you get. Imagine if NB got its value trippled or 5x´d tomorrow? I dare not put that past fatshark anymore.
Have you even read the previous messages? You’re literally repeating the same thing others have said which my detailed chart debunks.
If you can manage to keep your HP bar full of THP then you DO NOT benefit from natbond AT ALL.
There is no reason for you to take it and convert THP to GHP because - as you just said - you can keep your HP bar full of THP. It makes no difference.
Therefore in that scenario you are better off with Healer’s Touch and using it to heal teammates.
Again - stop twisting my words. You just assumed something I did not exactly say. And that’s your fault.
I said that cata players will be unlikely to receive 2 hits from elites and that no necklace can save you from the situation. And then I said that Barkskin helps in different scenarios.
You then insinuated that I said it’s ‘bad’ to take ‘several’ hits from elites but ‘acceptable’ to take ‘a bunch’ of hits from other enemies. Which I never said.
Then I explained how I never said that and said that it’s easier to avoid attacks from elite enemies because they are less numerous, slower and bigger than the the swarm-type enemies.
Barkskin will not help you when you get hit twice by an elite enemy outside of the 2s window. No necklace will. Barkskin will help you when you get hit by weaker enemies in the 2s window, though. It will help you in many other scenarios. Unlike NB.
That is what you assumed, not what I said.
But yes, Barkskin is always better than NB.
Everyone has to melee, even ranged classes. If that wasn’t the case… Then ranged classes wouldn’t be getting damage. But it’s not the case.
NB provides value that is significantly lower than any other necklace. WS benefits more from Boon, as does Pyro. I already stated why in detail in the posts above, multiple times, because people don’t seem to know how to read or refuse to.
In short - (especially with Boon of Shallya) your ranged downtime is quite insignificant if you fill your HP bar with THP and you are no detriment to the team. You are going to use melee at some point as ranged class anyway, therefore you don’t have to go out of your way to get enough THP.
Meanwhile vast majority of people who take NB are always detrimental to the team. They cannot heal themselves, they don’t have protection about sudden damage (like specials), they don’t have boosted THP generation, they lack anything that’d keep them far from the wounded state. It doesn’t matter that you are doing fine even though you cripple yourself with NB, because most people aren’t. They get hit and even if they manage to keep their HP full of THP the NB necklace is a waste because it just changes color of their HP which is already full.
I don’t know about that, I see shields very often. Just like dual hammers. Either way, people don’t have trouble generating THP as Bardin.
I have never had to run ahead of my team just to sustain my THP, even as ranged classes. Hordes are more than enough. And of course it’s specific to a shield-using dwarf. That’s the context you set up in the first place. But I’ve never had to run ahead of the team just to sustain my THP, save for Zealot. But NB is the worst choice for Zealot, so…
Because it’s fun.
What the f**k is it with you and ‘rushing melee’?
What do you mean by ‘rushing melee’? You don’t have to run a marathon to reach the enemy, you just grab your melee weapon, make a few steps forward, swing a few times and you have full HP for a significant amount of time, that’s it. It’s really not that hard. There’s no reason to chicken out and hide behind the team for 4 minutes just so you can regen 50 HP.
Also Sienna benefits greatly from THP because she can use it to vent her staves and have even more of the ranged uptime you moan about. Not to mention the fact that melee reduces your ult CD which means even more damage. I really have no idea what game you’re playing if you use solely ranged weapons on range-oriented classes.
I don’t care, I use HT on OE instead because I can just keep my HP full of THP. And I get to heal more teammates than I could with all the medkits I’d “save” if I used NB.
It decays significantly longer than it takes time to build it. And that’s why like 99% of the playerbase takes Barkskin or Boon of Shallya on ranged classes and depend on rapid THP generation to sustain themselves in combat. Go ahead and tell them they’re idiots.
If you don’t have proper legend/cata players you just die and don’t finish the mission. UCs blew up but they still managed to get stuff done.
I never said it is good to take hits from swarm enemies or get pinned. Again - stop twisting my words. That’s what you wrongly assumed I said. And if I am wrong then quote the exact sentence where I said it’s okay to tank swarm enemies and get caught by specials I only said that these things happen - because they do. Not everyone can avoid all the damage.
The only rabbit hole there is is the one you’re sitting in, waiting for several minutes for your HP to regen an huffing copium.
You didn’t specify ‘pinned’ as in ‘disabled by a special’. I thought you meant pinned down as in surrounded. And thus I said you’d survive it. And you agreed.
Of course being pinned down by an assassin in front of 3 gors is not something you survive. It’s not something you survive with NB or any other necklace either. So… Why bring such a scenario up? For What reason?
Except you don’t need to constantly “”““run melee””“” (whatever that means) to keep your THP in good shape. You don’t need to try really hard to sustain yourself with THP, especially with Boon of Shallya. Or Barkskin which makes ranged classes less likely to lose so much HP in the first place (specials are biggest threat to ranged classes, not frontline enemies that get a hit on them).
That’s exactly why almost everyone takes Barkskin on ranged classes. Because it’s so good. And NB is not, NB is worthless. That’s why it needs a buff/rework.
RNG is bad, yes. But even then it’s still worth it. It’s worth it for the times it works and it’s worth much more than natbond that is almost always detrimental for the team.
Again - you only have to go melee for a dozen seconds to keep your THP up. I don’t know why you’re ignoring that fact. Also… Barkskin is not 0 value. Barkskin is literally the most popular necklace trait in the game. What are you talking about?
People bad, will be hit. Even “proper legend/cata players” (and by “proper players” I meant people who can consistently start and finish legend/cata missions. Improper players would be people who aren’t experienced enough with the game but play the higher difficulty anyway) get hit. That’s just how it is.
People get hit by enemies on all difficulties. It’s not good. But they get hit. And they get caught by disablers.
No. You just act like a normal player, you shoot the enemies when you can and then you hit some in melee when you need to build up THP. That’s what literally everyone does. It’s really not that hard, you should try it. There’s more than enough enemies on Legend/Cata for that.
You cannot shoot all the time if you’re a ranged class, you’ll have to melee at some point (especially on cata) because that’s how the game works. You’d know it if you played the game. Ranged classes are supposed to melee too. I’d ask you to show me several videos of you playing the game, but that’s absolutely irrelevant because I’m not suggesting changes that should cater to you but to the entire playerbase and the entire playerbase plays the ranged classes and engage in melee combat often and it’s not any detriment to the team.
The THP does not decay quickly. It’s easy to maintain, even with ranged classes.
Boon helps build it quickier, which is not useless, it actually makes you spend less time doing it.
Anyone can use it. But it’s never the best choice. And it SHOULD BE great for the majority. I want Natural Bond to be a proper necklace trait that is viable on many builds rather than that one underpowered trait that a couple of copium-huffers say is good because they can survive missions with it.
Natural Bond is never the best choice. I want it to be the best choice as often as other traits are.
Ranged classes can reliably generate THP and then do the shooting. I’ve never heard anyone complain about it (maybe apart from BH, but I felt I was doing alright with Boon of Shallya + rapier headshots). That’s because it’s not a real problem. It’s a problem you pulled out of your ass and it’s a problem I’ve never encountered in my hundreds of hours of gameplay. And that’s why everyone takes Barkskin or Boon of Shallya and not Natural Bond. Because both of them are vastly better and Natural Bond is worthless.
You can never know if you are going to get hit a lot at once or not. Therefore Barkskin is never a bad choice. That’s why it’s the most popular necklace trait.
Boon of Shallya is good if you don’t have amazing THP gen.
Natural Bond is worthless and it’s why it’s almost never used. And you cannot deny that fact.
Then most people would tell you to take Barkskin instead. No one would recommend you natbond. That’s because natbond is trash.
I explained who are “proper legend/cata players” above. I can judge it because I am a proper legend/cata player.
I never said NB should be good for all builds/classes. I said NB should be good for all players.
I said that NB should be as good as other necklace traits are. Right now it’s not, that’s why almost no one uses it. Because it’s trash.
That’s literally RNG.
Yes it does, because I can often heal several teammates with one healing item instead of turning 50 white numbers into 50 green numbers across more than 4 minutes and pissing my pants when I get hit and all that time is lost.
You are still ignoring all the arguments I stated in this topic, unable to counter even a single one (so you have to twist my words), especially the fact that NB sucks, is extremely slow, replaces your THP instead of adding to it, makes you screwed when you take too many hits, makes your teammates have to carry medkits just to be able to heal you and you don’t benefit from all the other wonderful advantages of other traits.
Boon is very useful, even for ranged classes, because it allows you to reliably generate THP even in a pinch.
But I did. In contrast to Unchained. Unchained has damage reduction, but it goes into her overcharge. And overcharge explosion is what often kills players, not lack of HP. It’s like having second, separate HP bar.
Facts that I’ve seen people having better survival rates as Pyromancer than Unchained.
You don’t have to run a marathon to reach the swarm. You can pull out your weapon and easily build some THP (and you don’t need much, as you said you don’t lose much HP with ranged classes) that will last you for the fight, which I already said figuratively 200 times and which you would know perfectly well and agree if you played the game.
Yes they should. Or rework it. Right now it’s barely used. Because it’s trash.
NB’s niche is a handful of players that thing NB is in a good spot because they can survive a mission with it and ignore the fact that there’s not a single scenario where NB would be the best choice.
I don’t know about that. Wait, I actually do. People still use weapons that use ammo and weapons that do not use ammo are generally well-rounded and a fun alternative to play with. Unlike NB.
That depends how much THP you need. If you need a lot, then obviously Boon of Shallya is the better choice, we all agree on that (or you can just take Barkskin).
If you don’t need a lot… Then you can keep your HP topped with THP and you can just take Barkskin to be safe or Healer’s Touch to benefit your team. You won’t benefit from NB at all since you can keep your HP topped with THP. And even if it decays - you don’t need a lot of THP, so you have most of your GHP. Therefore decay won’t put you into any dangerous situation. Simple as.
Situation B.) One elite over head, almost dead. Followed up by a second elite over head 4 minutes later.
Outcome 1.) WIth Barkskin - Alive, because you generated enough THP to tank the hit. You had 4 minutes for that, so it shouldn’t be a problem.
Outcome 2.) WIth Natbond - Also alive, because you generated enough THP to tank the hit. During those 4 minutes natbond wasted all the effort of turning the funny white bar into funny green bar which made absolutely no difference because the hit dealt just as much damage.
I already explained it to you several times. I’m going to do it again.
Sienna especially can profit from THP because she can use it to vent her staves to deal more damage sooner. Generally the more THP she has, the more she can vent and the more ranged uptime she has. Also melee attacks lower her ult CD so she can ult more and deal more damage.
Outcast Engineer can also benefit from using THP to vent Drakegun or Drakefire Pistols. Aside from that, he has excellent THP generation from stagger weapons and doesn’t even need Boon of Shallya to keep his HP full of THP. And he also has big HP pool so he has much more time before all of it decays. And that is if THP decay is a problem in the first place - it was never a problem for me, any of my friends or anyone I ever talked with. And if he can keep his HP full of THP, then he’s not going to benefit from NB at all. That’s why I use HT on such classes. And that’s why everyone uses Barkskin on such classes.
Bounty Hunter is tricky and many people complain about him, though I found that I can generate THP more or less comfortably with the rapier. Even if I couldn’t I’d still take Barkskin. Just like literally everyone else.
Also not engaging in melee as sienna means you don’t have THP for venting and you don’t get ult CD reduction.
Are you sure you’re playing Vermintide 2 and not Vermintide 1? You don’t even seem to know how Zealot works.
Yeah, that’s literally why I don’t use it. And that’s literally why almost no one else uses it.
That’s why it needs a buff/rework. It has potential to be fun and on par with other traits.
If you use NB the chances are you are detrimental to the team. I don’t know about you because I’ve never seen you play but the fact that you don’t even know Zealot basics makes me doubt if you ever finished a single cata mission.
I will. Because vast majority of people using Natural Bond are exactly that. They don’t have damage mitigation or reliable THP generation, they get downed and team has to waste healing items to cure their wounds.
It’s probably better than nothing. But compared to other traits it is quite useless, yeah. Worthless, rather.
Yeah, it makes you think you are doing something good saving healing for the rest of the team, at least until you get hit and have low HP. Then you get downed and someone has to use medkit on you.
It’s not about what you NEED it’s about how much THP you can generate with your play style and build. The rest doesn’t matter here. Ranged. Focused. Builds. And. Playstyles. Do. Not. Use. Meaningful.Temp.Health.Natural.Bond.CAN.be.more.optimal.
That’s because you are supposed to go into melee. I already said several times that ranged classes cannot avoid melee forever. Enemies will catch up to them. Rest of the team won’t be able to keep all the enemies at bay, just so one ranged class can have safe space.
And it’s literally because most classes get THP from melee. Like, duh.
I was saying that generating THP on ranged classes is not difficult nor does it take long. It’s actually quite fast and lasts you for longer than enough to do ranged stuff.
Okay… And? How does that relate to my advice? THP buffor is easy to generate. You can just melee for a few seconds and get better results than natbond gets you after several minutes. And that’s why everyone does that and doesn’t take natbond.
I’m not sure why it’s so hard to understand. Natural Bond is just trash. If it wasn’t then more people would be using it and people wouldn’t be complaining about it and making suggestions to improve it.
Barkskin is always a good choice because it allows you to mitigate damage from:
Gutter Runner
Hook Rat
Blightstormer
Lifeleech
Ratling
Warpfire Thrower
Stormfiend fire
Globadier gas
Burning oil
Enemy berserker combo
Bile troll vomit
Friendly fire
Literally any mob that also happens to hit you while you’re being disabled by a special
Meanwhile the best that NB can do is:
turn your white HP into green HP over the course of several minutes (let’s hope you don’t get another hit…)
make sure you cannot use healing items properly
stop you from getting all the beautiful advantages of other necklace traits
So yeah, Barkskin is always better. Barkskin will do a lot to keep you from getting into the wounded state and in the end save the healing items you wanted to save by using NB.
They are always better, yes.
On WS vast majority of people take Barkskin, but WS can benefit from Boon because it works with her regen and gives her other advantages while having no disadvantages, unlike NB.
On Pyromancer vast majority of people take Barkskin, but Pyro can benefit from Boon because any extra THP can be used to vent the staff and have more ranged uptime and damage output. Are you really going to spend 5 minutes regenerating green HP just to then use it for venting?
Uh, no. You’re streching it. It doesn’t decay that fast. Or rather you’ll be generating THP consantly because… Well, you’ll be in melee constantly. That’s how the game works. Even ranged classes have to melee. You can’t just… Run away from the enemies. Whenever some come your way, you just kill them in melee. And that gets you more THP. Like… Have you played the game?
True. Only Barkskin helps in such scenario.
And if you can cap out on THP without Boon - great. If you feel comfortable with it then it’s time to move to HT so you can greatly benefit your team. Or just stay with Barkskin because that’s always a good choice, especially for the elf.
There’s more than enough hordes on Legend/Cata. I’ve never had issues with it myself nor heard of anyone having issues.
Having HP capped out with THP is easy on Cata. Killing all the specials is the challenge, since they are the biggest threat.
Great. So Barkskin is better for them. Or HT, if they feel confident.
Nah, even if they decay they can just generate new THP within mere seconds once there’s a swarm. NB might regenerate them a bit of the lost health, but it’s extremely slow and if you get hit in combat you’re not going to regenerate it anywhere as quickly as you can build THP. Therefore NB is worthless. And also Pyro needs that THP for venting and CDR so she’s going to be meleeing often anyway if she’s a good Pyro. WS will be fine because she has the regeneration that will bring her up to 50% and then she can easily build full HP with THP from that point.
You’ve missed the fact that every class is bound to melee at some point.
What is it with you and ‘running melee’? All classes do melee. They have to, they can’t just run away from enemies. They will absolutely have to do melee before their THP decays. That’s literally how everyone plays. And there’s always enough THP fodder, unless you have someone like Bardin running Drakegun. Maybe tell every single ranged legend/cata player that they are detrimental idiots for even pulling out their melee weapon and not running Natural Bond - obviously the superior choice. The superior choice that so many people complained about for such a long time for being trash. It’s… It’s a hidden gem… Why people don’t use it is beyond me…
And the fact that her ult got a cooldown reduction. Which allows for more THP from the lvl 30 talent. Which makes NB even more worthless. Does it? Wait, not really… Dividing 0 by 2 is still 0…
If they can achieve that, then they can keep their HP capped and don’t need Natural Bond. Problem solved.
What does “i want to lowers value” mean, then? I am not a native English speaker, so if it’s some niche way of talking then I might just not get it.
Barkskin isn’t supposed to ‘make it work’. Barkskin is a failsafe. And a good one.
So yeah, you end up in melee during hordes. And that’s ranged downtime. And that’s also where you’re supposed to generate the THP. If you can generate enough THP to cap your HP bar, then you are going to benefit greatly from either Barkskin or HT.
Except when they do.
And vast majority of people using NB are detrimental to the team.
They get hit and they cannot sustain themselves or survive disablers as easily.
That’s because NB sucks and doesn’t offer anything meaningful compared to other traits.
And that’s why it needs to change.
Yeah, that’s obvious. Barkskin will not help you if you get hit by one attack every so often. I think everyone understands that. But Barkskin can and WILL prevent damage from multiple specific sources.
Unlike Natural Bond, despite what you said. But that’s simply a matter of semantics. “Prevent” simply wasn’t a good word for it.
Yes. And yet it’s the most popular necklace trait in the game.
Meanwhile NB is considered noob trap and trash.
That’s untrue. If you get a scenario in which all NB ever does is replace THP with GHP (which is extremely likely, unlike the scenario you proposed) then it has 0 value. In that scenario it does not reduce the total damage taken, it does not help you survive any longer.
That is why Natural Bond is not popular at all, people complain about it being too weak and it’s worthless.
Barkskin and Boon of Shallya work even better on WS and Pyro.
Nope, it can be buffed to compete because when it is, then it can compete.
If it was buffed to be too powerful then it would end up too powerful.
The way it is now NB is never used aside from a few inexperienced or delusional players.
That’s because it is.
And I don’t want it to be. Because I am fan of passive HP regen.
I actually played on several mods that overhaul the game and buff the Natural Bond by for example boosting its healing output and having it not replace THP but add to GHP until it’s necessary. It didn’t always feel like the best choice (especially on Sienna classes), it felt as an equal alternative.
It is absolutely about what you need. And you need enough THP to survive enemy attacks.
NB cannot be more optimal.
If ranged player gets hit a lot, they benefit more from Boon obviously.
If they don’t get hit a lot, then their HP remains relatively high and so they can easily patch it up with THP.
If they want to last longer against consecutive attacks (like specials) they ought to take Barkskin.
There’s no place for natbond; it won’t fit anywhere.
It is possible to play with NB and do well with it. But there’s always a better choice.
and if you avoid this barkskin will have no use, only against specials which are also no real thread in 95% of the runs.
And if you avoid this, NB will also have no use. Even against specials which are actually a threat. So it’s better to use Barkskin 95%+ of the time. It has better “insurance coverage”. Protects you from rat pokes while you’re downed and waiting to be revived too.
Here are the top two upvoted comments in reply to that post. They also contains sensible reviews of NB (emphasis mine):
You mention how backliners like huntsman, waystalker and ranger vet generate the least amount of thp. That has not been my experience, in fact, RV has been one of the best careers at generating THP with exhilirating vapours/THP on cleave and cog hammer. Huntsman’s THP on stagger is amazing combined with the tuskgor spear, and THP on cleave with Sword and Dagger on waystalker is also really good.
Another point that I’d like to make is that the higher difficulty you go, the less downtime you get in between hordes and specials, making long uninterrupted times of healing less likely. Sometimes in Cata you get 1-2 minute long hordes, 30 seconds of “rest” then another horde.
I don’t think there’s enough incentive to switch from Barkskin to NB, since with Bark I can survive more than 2 seconds of a backstabber pounce, or gas cloud, or fire burst or gatlin gunner shot or… you get my point.
All natural bond shilling posts forgot to mention how HP generation works in combination of THP.
Most of the time NB gives you 0 benefit to your effective health. Because health regeneration REPLACES temporary health, it doesn’t add to it. If you have white health, green health regeneration does nothing to increase your effective health.
It “might” sometimes help a bit if you lack THP completely as some ranged career and avoiding melee like crazy. But on melee builds it is literally useless.
And biggest downside to NB is not the health item downside. It is that you can’t use other traits. Like barkskin. Barkskin would probably be best trait even if it only worked when people are downed. Non Barkskin users die in nanosecond when downed in horde while barkskin players can survive until someone saves them.
… You’re basically saying to not play the game a certain way. I am not sure why it’s so hard to understand that you don’t NEED to play the game based around temp health. If I am playing bounty hunter with griffon foots, kerillian with javelin and not using a talent to give temp health on using my ult, or our cast engineer using my mini gun almost the entire match, or using skeletons and staff as necromancer… Then picking a trait on my necklace based around temp health is a waste.
Yes, being an aggressive front liner may not see much benefit from natural bond. But I don’t know why you seem to be unaware of how backliners focusing on range and sniping specials and elites with very few healing supplies in cats or legend likely can benefit from natural bond a lot more than other options. It’s as simple as that. It’s not (they should be more melee and temp health focused) that’s not an argument. You would have to convince people who play classes a certain way, to not play them that way to justify your argument! It’s a lot simpler to just say “fine, there are SOME situations natural bond is advantageous when being a ranged backliner with few melee engagements or temp health generation”. It’s a much more moderate and reasonable position to be in. By being so hard lined that there’s supposedly ZERO situations natural bond is good in you just come off as a fanatic that seems to hold faith to this belief and can’t accept contrary evidence to your pre-existing beliefs on the options available for players to choose.
That post has flaws and downplays the disadvantages.
Therefore, as someone with natural bond, you can retain effectiveness of healing by prioritizing grabbing medkits and using them on teammates if you happen to go down, to clear your own wound. Unfortunately, you won’t receive THP or PHP from this method, so DEFENSIVE PLAY or OTHER FORMS OF HEALTH GENERATION are VITAL TO SURVIVAL.
This literally states that Natural Bond is more or less lame and you have to rely on something else to make it remotely usable.
The smartest NB players know to hold off on healing their wound in order to get the most of healing someone else with their medkit, or to save their draught until a medkit is found, unless in a dire situation.
This adopts the most optimistic (and obviously, from experience) the rarest situation.
It omits the fact that having NB in the first place you don’t get to benefit from the damage mitigation of Barkskin or boosted healing and THP generation of Boon of Shallya. With Natural Bond you are most likely to go into the wounded state (because NB has no use in emergency, unlike the other two) which will actually require to use a healing item to remove the wound.
When you’re knocked down, without any THP ults or healing nearby, your health fades away faster than Spiderman after Thanos snaps his fingers.
That’s untrue. Being wounded means your THP takes twice as long to decay. That means if you generate 15 THP with one attack (which is not unreasonable) you are set for 30 seconds. If you generate your full HP worth of THP (lets say you have 120HP) then you have 4 minutes worth of time. You are granted to fight a swarm within 4 minutes, so you can easily keep it up. And if you don’t have a healing item (and your team is more likely to have some if you were doing a good job generating THP beforehand) then you will probably find some within that time alone. But you’re going to have more time, since you’ll surely run into swarms.
Backliners, such as Ranger Bardin, Waystalker, Huntsman, everything squishy and not frontlining, make great use of NB.
Untrue. These 3 classes are great at generating lots of THP. Even the first comment (the most upvoted) on the post states so.
Consider the effectiveness of NB with both grims in your party. With lower max health, the value of the healing from NB becomes far more effective
No it does not. You heal for the same amount of damage. And you get hit for the same amount of damage. It makes no difference.
Also to add to it, quoting the same comment I mentioned above:
Another point that I’d like to make is that the higher difficulty you go, the less downtime you get in between hordes and specials, making long uninterrupted times of healing less likely. Sometimes in Cata you get 1-2 minute long hordes, 30 seconds of “rest” then another horde.
I don’t think there’s enough incentive to switch from Barkskin to NB, since with Bark I can survive more than 2 seconds of a backstabber pounce, or gas cloud, or fire burst or gatlin gunner shot or… you get my point.
Even against specials which are actually a threat. So it’s better to use Barkskin 95%+ of the time. It has better “insurance coverage”. Protects you from rat pokes while you’re downed and waiting to be revived too.