Natural Bond + Mods = Problem

First time playing since the first wave of sanctioned mods.

Immediately entered a game where drama was brought up over someone telling an NB user to leave. The host can now see this buff thanks to one of the sanctioned mods.

Can we have a revamp or removal of Natural Bond as a priority? I’m so freaking sick of trying to find a rare game anymore only to deal with this bull!@#$ drama, and I’m only praying I’m not alone in that.

Productive Suggestion to Natural Bond: Reduce healing item effectiveness by 75% but let them heal wounds.

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Ahhhh…that ppl again Let´s kick every NB player!!! ^^

Well… i play NB on every char and even ended games with 3 / 4 times NB in my games. ^^
It don´t need any revamp or remove. The ppl better should switch their minds. (or the designer the mod)

pros:

  • permanentely healing over time
  • more heal-potions for the other members
  • very useful on skilled players
  • super effectiv with “% more heal or WS passiv”
  • regenerate friendly fire dmg :slight_smile:

cons:

  • you can heal wounds with med packs (or unchained passiv) only.
  • less useful on unskilled players

As you could see, i marked some points. NB is fine in it´s current state and everyone in my games is happy about some extra potions for themself. Ok, you can´t know anything about your randoms. I got some players with NB in my games and they were… “hmm… okay… don´t play NB if you die 3 times in a half run.”
So a revamp like you called, would make it much more broken than it is (on skilled players).
A removal would kill the game experience from a lot ppl… mysef included…

Edit: another pro: unskilled players won’t eat every heal^^

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you don’t want to run with people who kick NB users, trust me. because they r bad, rofl

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The deal with NB is this: If you are good enough that it makes sense to run it, you don’t need it anymore and it’s alot more useful to bring literally anything else. It is a good training tool atm since you are more inclined not to get hit, but yeah, it does need revamp. I do like the idea of just reduced healing from healing items and it would be nice if the regen would increase when you have temp hit points.

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Are you playing on champion or legend primarily? I always run NB on my IB (granted it’s one of the more accepted classes to run it on), but I very rarely get any shite from players complaining that someone has NB. From reading the forums, it seems the general champion community is a smidge more toxic than legend, where people tend to be a bit more chill in terms of builds.

Also may be based on your location, I am based in the UK and the games I join rarely have shouty bastards who think they know everything and kick anyone who isnt running meta builds.

Hopped back on champion to train up my slayer and the atmosphere was a bit different, no one used voice chat unless it was to complain about a wipe or someone elses non-meta build.

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Natural bond is for skilled players, hehe.
Not getting hit is for skilled players I would say.
“But venting my unchained” you d say. Worst option for unchained is to have NB and carry tome from the start I would say, for character, which can get downed by two random non-lethal attacks. Two backstabbing slave rats can put you on the grey screen, and you wanna be NB and carry tome? With how bad mage melee weapons are you would be hit from the front also. No, thanks, you d better take increased healing and stack yourself some temp HP for venting or gtfo.

I personally think any other trait is better.
Even if your elf eats every stormvermin overhead and drink every draught on the way, having other traits is better. As fk, ib or uc you may pass level without been need of healing cause you have 225, 216, 180 HP. You get some hits, horde is coming, you get some temp HP. What you need NB for? IDK.

As squishy 120 HP impact of every hit on you is much higher, cause more likely you are not supposed to face hordes with your melee weapon, but take care of specials with a gun. Where getting hit with 2grims is half of your HP, better be able to heal yourself and don’t duck around with NB, which most likely will cause problems not for you, but for your teams, cause they have to proceed as three after first cheesy special or ambush

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I do find this argument hard to refute. The idea of being good enough to use NB, normally means that you’ll maybe use 1 healing item throughout the whole game. The only issue I have with this is that you may be good enough to take minimal damage, but you dont always know what your team is going to be like. Had a game last night where we got shafted at the start, the other 3 were on wound and I was on 10 health. Throughout the game, all healing items were being scoffed to recover from the initial ravaging while I slowly ticked back to full by the half way point.

That being said, I do like the idea of reworking it to reduce healing to 25% or having the regen increase through temp health. Also NB definitely has diminishing returns. If i see anyone else using it, i’ll switch out as I think anything over 1 NB user causes more issues than it solves.

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Yes because you can’t heal your own wounds mostly so:

Makes a lot of sense balance wise.
NB = 2hp/10s
Pot = 75hp = NB 6min 15s

@Darth_Angeal I don’t think Sno is against NB but just as annoyed as you and me of the drama.

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I know… my first sentence wasn´t even against him, it was more sarcasm against the ppl that he met. ^^

The rest was just an explanation, that NB is fine as it is. Every “buff” would make it the BIS trait and everyone would run it. Permaheal + clearing the wounds with healing draughts would be too broken.

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How about remove the ability to clear your own wounds when NB is equipped? Allow 25% healing or increased effectiveness when healing through temp health with NB but maintain the inability to cure your own wounds unless you use a kit on someone else. Starting to get a bit complicated but lets make NB great again (or at least less controversial).

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The problem isnt damage you can avoid.
The Problem is damage generated by glitched melee, 180 Boss turn/Boss teleport or spawn-on-player specials you simply cant avoid.

Still, raging because of other players choices isnt what I would call a decent player. But thats how the Vermintide community is like

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The problem with the temp health would be, that some chars just sit on it. (Pyro, Zealot)

If you really want to buff it, i would go another way:

In it´s current state it´s strong as long as you can manage it with your own surviveability and as long as your team is alive and you don´t have to fight 1 v all , you should be safe and you team enjoys a lot of healing draughts.

BUT if you have to fight as last survivor a boss + horde or something, it could be sick. Everywhere healing draughts and you can´t use them, so you´ve to play perfectly to carry this one. Personally that´s a challenge i love, but on the other side, it´s sick for the team. ^^
So let´s say if you´re alone or atleast 2 teammates are down, maybe the heal amount should be increased by 50% (duo) and 100% (solo).
That would be a buff, that won´t effect the “normal gameplay” that hard, but even won´t give you a big disadvantage, if the half team is dead.

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This again… First off, If someone kicks you for using a certain build or part thereof, that’s very likely a person you don’t want to play with. Either they’re not good enough to make things work themselves and don’t believe anyone else is either, generalising from bad experience with some who use that particular thing and not even giving a chance to anyone else, or just generally nasty elitists.

Second, we’ve already seen a lot of “discussion” about NB, and it usually soon degenerates into a contradiction argument. For a more sensible analysis and discussion (that still attracted some of the naysayers without anything useful to add, but less so than usual), Grimalackt posted some interesting stuff in Reddit a little while ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/91y3wv/a_thourough_analysis_of_natural_bond_its_uses/

Leaving my personal opinions about the trait in question out of this, as it doesn’t bring anything to the discussion and is tangential to the topic at best.

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Whats this, someone who doesn’t like discussing the same thing over and over again?! Heresy. Do like to think this thread has been relatively civil so far (unlike a lot of the other NB discussions), but the reddit post seems to cover a fair bit and takes a more analytical approach to the discussion. Thanks for posting it. I think a few of us forget to check both forums.

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I don´t think this thread will become ridiculous like a lot in the past. Some strange ppl gone their ways into nowhere or maybe changed their mind and can accept other opinions, so it´s pretty chilled in this forum for now. I haven´t seen 2239094904 flags the past weeks here.
So just let´s hope it will stay civilizate and maybe, someone will find a way, everyone is fine with.

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Thems fightin wurds

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Pyromancer is better isn´t it?

Anyway Off-topic ^^

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Original post was very poorly put together in a fit of frustration.

I really don’t have a problem with people who use NB in Legend, same with people who choose any non-“meta” load out. I do have a problem with using a service like quick play that is supposed to just put 4 randoms together ending up being filtered by people with mods that allow them to inspect certain elements of that player before the game even starts.

I get the arguments for it too, we’ve all played WoW/an MMO at some point or another, but since we don’t have the party finding tools to customize who we want to join using quick play it ends up just forcing people to leave after loading in or play a specific way.

Possible alternate suggestion is giving players tools to filter your hosted games in QP as well but that just leads to the same problem of playing a specific way or you don’t get to play at all. It used to just be maybe 1 out of 20-30 games in my experience where someone would rage because of NB use (as in cause disruption to the game, not jokingly) but now you have every other thread on reddit being NB memes and more divisive attitudes from a smaller player pool (not a knock at the game, just the facts).

At this point Natural Bond as a game mechanic is just too corrosive to the player base as it is currently and it needs to just go away or change fundamentally.

Thanks for the well thought out and civil replies to everyone here.

If it wasn’t for the mod I wouldn’t have known to tell that unchained who decided to run away from the first tome to come pick it up wasting everybody’s time.

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Yep, that happens a lot and i do understand why, Because natural bond is sort of unnecessary and when you have a team mate, who just tells you they cant heal, when they are grey, it’s sort of annoying but in no way am i against people who use it because i use to use it on ironbreaker and waystalker until i sort of realised i didn’t need it. Because in the long run, you shouldn’t really be taking damage anyway and if you do, you shouldn’t be taking that much damage, to the point where you dont have healing supplies. It’s just seems sort of useless for the most part so thats why people get mad, when a grim carrier is stuck on grey going pass multiple health pots until they find bandages. So yes, i would prefer teammates who don’t use it but that doesn’t mean i dont want people using it you know.

But yes it is annoying when people complain about it, because if they want to use it then let them.

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