Likely due to the powercreep, a lot of players are playing above their skill level in havoc. If you play Havoc 40 consistently, you know these players. They have completed a single havoc 40 and have the tag by their name, but likely dont have a havoc 40 as their current assignment rank. These players are carried by their class and their teammates. They leech off of havoc 40s on the board because they cant reach 40 on their own. It’s evident they’re carried by the massive power creep when you see them unable to properly kite enemies, have poor positioning, zero forethought in their decision making, no situational awareness, and zero understanding of melee combos. It’s clear these players just look at the latest Darktide YouTuber build and jump into the first 40 they see on the board without the skill to put the build to use
INB4 L2Carry Scrub.
It’s been like this since launch, people feel entitled to be in the ultimate difficulties without having done any of the legwork, hoping for a free lunch.
Buddy it’s actually YOUR fault im tied up 90% of the game
It’s not that powercreep is the main issue, the reason for that is Havoc seaon 1, where they could be boosted by playing as a gold toughness bot in like one H40 game. People literally begged in the discord for that.
You know it’s crazy when A.S.S./Havoc Forged/True Survivor does not know where the med stations are and walks past deployd ammo/health packs.
I agree people often punch above their weight but absolutely no one can reach h40 “on their own” and it’s super narcissistic for someone to believe they can. You’ve soured your point with this addition.
H40 is a difficulty level that requires all players to be good. If you have 1 or 2 bad players then the mission is going to wipe. To think otherwise is elitist and childish.
I play and successfully complete a h40 each week. I probably play anywhere between 3-10 h40 missions a week and always with randoms. I never play with premades and I don’t use mods.
As I only play h40 I have not reached a h40 host rank (after losing it due to that bug early on and taking a long break from havoc) because other player skill is absolutely the deciding factor on top of a whole pile of variables that could see a wipe. Some H40 games feel like a breeze with much fewer enemies and no teamates get downed the entire time, whereas sometimes the director throws 4 simultaneous bosses at you in the start of the map (that isn’t designed for this kind of combat) and its a wipe within a couple of minutes. Hell, have some blue stimm ragers with encroaching garden captains and rotten armour and you have a much harder game than any other modifier combos.
A host rank is determined by teamate and modifier RNG as much, if not more, as one’s own skill.
Sorry but I have taken umbrage at the insinuation that a lack of host rank is a sign of a weak player. That’s not fair at all.
It’s why I rock the Budding Interrogator title at this point. If I could I’d wear a title that says “Knows More Than You”
90% of people playing Rotten Armor missions can barely handle them, so I blame insane balancing. These missions are mentally exhausting to play. But yes some people just don’t respect others time, they can barely move camera around let alone do something useful and they don’t even use their abilities properly (not placing bubble to progress but to camp, saving chorus and not restoring it quickly enough, not using taunt on ogryn to pull enemies all the time to give the team space).
I’ve had games where we lost to a single elite pack somewhere mid mission, because sometimes it’s near impossible to kite them AND also deal with specials, gunners and bosses, unless all 4 players are on the god mode juice.
The devs should definitely nerf both Garden and Rotten Armor for the health of the game and playerbase, at least by restricting them from stacking with each other. It’s a cheap challenge and I’ve seen even players much better than me get stuck in an armored blob without a slight chance to outdamage them and instantly die because they can’t move.
These modifiers only cultivate more toxicity in the community. Nobody in the history on this game launches this game and says, “BOY, I can’t wait to play Garden/Rotten armor missions for the fun of it!” And if they say they do, it’s just for the sake of beating insane cheap challenge to feel good about themselves AFTER they’ve already completed it, because I don’t know how braindamaged you should be to enjoy the gameplay loop of Garden/Rotten missions.
Throw blue stims in the rotten/garden mix and you have the absolute ultimate challenge.
Blue stimms is not that bad. With a good Ogryn and people actually caring for each other, it’s not hard to beat. Stimms/Rotten armor in my personal opinion are primarily hard because of Rotten Armor, not because of stimms.
Arbites counters blue Ragers, because the dog is some kind of hard crowd control that ignores all of their stagger immunity, and good Ogryn can group blue ragers up so that the team can finish them off.
And while Garden may be not that bad, i just HATE it. Garden is very tedious and hard to play without a good Psyker, because it’s the only way to consistently pause the heal from large packs of purple enemies without backtracking 3 rooms back to have a chance to kill them. I’ve had this game playing as an Ogryn with two Chinese psykers (their loadouts in the lower corner of the screen) early in the morning, and it was just complete pain for me. Zero enjoyment from this mission. This is was my personal assignment and these days very few people offer to reroll the mission, most people to this day don’t have their personal assignment at 40. SO I’M FREAKING STUCK WITH THIS MISSION, UNTIL I CLEAR IT, OH MY GOD.
Mind you, I don’t blame Psykers, we still won the game. But I’m blaming the idiotic design of the modifier that almost requires certain things to beat it (and Ogryn nerfs where your pickaxe and shovel can no longer oneshot Crushers consistently in Havoc).
They don’t even do it (consistently) in auric anymore, I been thinking that maybe crunch should be buffed so that they can again but I’m not sure.
It’s the stimms with garden and armour that makes it too spicy imo. Isolated is fine.
Last night as Ogryn I played against a genuinely invincible blue stim rager in h40. I have never seen anything like it. A captain boss was with him. The rest of my team had abandoned me (one was awaiting rescue but the other 2 had run off) so it was just me VS those two enemies. A captain is doable but this rager just wouldn’t die and wouldn’t stop. He depleted my stamina and toughness in seconds.
I guess the rager had the encroaching garden boost from the captain as the rager just would not die no matter how many hits or paul shock hits he took and I couldn’t tackle the captain until the rager had been dealt with. But he wouldn’t die.
Naturally I ended up dead. That rager is the toughest enemy I have played against in all my 1.5k hours.
I don’t understand why blue stims has so many buffs. And why does it last forever? Our stims last for a few seconds but enemies get it for good!
the only problem in this “above one’s pay grade” is having havoc 40 resembling not only the “exotic” ways of earning your livelihood but it not being available to anyone equally from the start.
now, to explain this, to a huge percentage personally i rate skill in terms of what you are able to do by yourself, if anything else fails for example.
solo a match, continued clutch/carry for the majority of the duration etc.
you as an individual against the map and ai.
havoc already blurs this line by having mandatory synergies or dependages(?) on stuff/talents/loadout, that’s not within your grade of pay matter how “skilled” you are
(the odd stealth zealot solo run ignored here for convenience 
)
where is the line between “getting carried” and being mandatory dependent on a certain quota of others, you cant (by either talent or weaponry numbers/effects) yourself, in a pinch, on demand?
i mean you can clearly spot a super underperformer getting dragged by 3 or less prodigies, sure.
but the “standard” rando-experience?
is the book zealot a boon cause he augments the “competition” into doing better or baggage cause he could do 60%more kills/dps himself otherwise?
(hypothetical question by the way, aint that deep into zealot loadouts to gauge dmg% on a whim)
havoc being a mode where teamplay isn’t only encouraged, but a tiny few 0.00..% could do 
by themselves if it wasnt for a very outlining character trait, that’s the issue I got here with havoc 40 outside ones pay grade.
people’s gonna suck at the game to no one’s surprise, the one mode where said people aren’t free to clear it solo with any char/loadout of choice, by personal output alone…..
aint quite my measure for it.
like sayin you’re a worse worker than Warren buffet or whatever he’s called cause you lack the initial funds to invest equal amounts and net the exact same profit 
Breh i hate that so called “argument” so much. Like sometimes i’m in the mood to carry, sometimes i’m not. I didn’t sign up myself to be a babbysiter for the whole DT lifespan.
Not even saying sometimes there is noone to carry cause people are ragequitting.
FS need to redo tutorials and prologue, it will not cure the damage was done already by people learned bad habbits with power creep. But there are always will be some new players.
- Learning curve spoiled by powercreep, fix it
- Tutorial in its current form is bad, people can just skip psykanium training, no ingame glossary explaining ingame terms like brittleness, impact, etc. All mechanics should be explained in the prologue mission with short clip demonstrations and maybe even voice narration (Zola or Morrow)
- Some soft skillchecks like psykanium trials, like SM2
- Lower difficulties are probably poorely balanced aswell, like not enough enemies and empty maps (it was like that back in the days atleast)
- Increase rewards for lower difficulties, so people don’t feel they must chase higher ones to skip the grind
I think most people who parrot “l2carry” don’t even play Havoc. How the hell am I supposed to “carry” as a tanky shield Ogryn when 1-2 of the DPS classes somehow manage to deal less damage than me and die to random poxwalkers while I taunt massive armor waves?
People were playing in higher diffs than they should even in Auric Maelstrom
This is nothing new
To lot of things it seems, here’s for example a thread full of people who thinks that somehow they are entitled to a skilled random teammates when they !!!PUG!!! the endgame content 
A quick reminder that there’s in fact a part of the Havoc community that doesn’t suffer on this at all and has its own legitimate and actually quite objective take on people being entitled!
You either premade the endgame content or you gonna suffer thru it and both outcomes are proper and as they should be
“on your own" probably means pulling your weight and assemplying the right team instead of joining random teams hoping to get hard carried by a mostly premade team.
It’s almost like if you go to powerlifting championship, you would expect participants to know how to hold dumpbells and bars. Crazy entitled to ask the same for people who want to queque for the hardest content in the game.
The whole idea of the “end game” in a skill depended game that there should be some sort of expected competence, both mechanicaly and through knowledgecheck.
That’s why there are 40 havoc levels, not just one. Aswell as learning curve and players distribution among those levels.
Noone is saying every run there should be 5000k hours players only. The problem is there are too much unskilled and unexpirienced players ignoring all those learning curves and organic difficulty filters. And not only in Havoc, even some Auric runs are leavers conveyor.
Havoc 40 is absolutely playble with randoms, the problem is to filter those players who are not even supposed to play H40.
If H40 was designed and supposed to be played with premades only, then FS should implement ingame Guilds/Clans system. Either way they aren’t providing a solution for the objective they created.
Yeah I’m actually fine with people attempting a higher difficulty. Because why not? Why shouldn’t people give it a go if they feel they’re up to it.
The trouble with havoc is that everyone gets punished for a wipe. This makes it toxic AF.
If the 3 strike system was abolished, and instead the demotion was hard locked to weekly reset then things would be much less toxic.
(so you have a whole week to successfully complete a mission equal to or higher than current rank to avoid demotion. If you have not done so by weekly reset then you lose 1 rank)