The Stagger Talent has been over-nerfed

The basic point I want to make in this post is that some of the weapons have been over-nerfed with the temp hp gain on stagger. But before I do that, I want to say a little bit about the temp hp system in general.

(You can skip the following paragraph to get to my point about the new changes.)

I think the temp health system in Vermintide makes the game too difficult for new players, and Darktide’s refillable toughness (which replaced the temp hp system) is a notable improvement. I think it would be best to adopt something like toughness for Vermintide 3. This is partly because in Verminitide you’re sensitive to tiny hits and it leaves little room for error, even for tanky careers. You always have to be “on” when you’re playing because one hit from a small slave rat after you’ve cleared the area can tank your health. Temp hp is the one of the ways that players can mitigate this. You build up temp hp to create a buffer from going down and dying. All of this is to simply say that temp hp is a crucial part of the game and should be balanced correctly. I don’t think I’m saying anything controversial here. This is what we all know.

Now what about the new temp hp changes? So, while on the one hand, some of the new changes are good in that they remove the useless heal share talent that nobody ever used. It’s also nice to see the (earlier) buff to crits/headshots talent. It’s nice that slave rats give more on temp hp based on kill. But the stagger nerfs are too much in my opinion (and this, partly due to the overall role that temp hp plays in the game, which I described above).

For example, the shielded weapons on Bardin don’t kill very much, and they’re not supposed to; with those weapons, you trade damage output for survivability – a crucial part of which is the temp hp. If you can’t get good temp hp gain with it, it’s useless as a weapon because with just one slave rat to hit you in the butt after you’ve cleared the horde, you lose all your temp hp and health when playing certain careers.

My final (and controversial) opinion is this. A final note – maybe not about Vermintide 2, but for future games (Verminitide 3, anyone?) – is that Battle Wizard’s firesword temp hp gain on stagger should be the standard for refillable health (toughness/temp hp), not something that’s seen as overpowered and abused. The challenge of the game should come from the sheer number of enemies – it’s a Verminitide after all – rather than taking too much or too little damage and struggling to get your temp hp up.

2 Likes

I agree that the nerf was overdone. I don’t agree that Fire Sword or Shielded weapons or shotgun bashes should have been the golden standard that THP should aim for. They were overpowered in terms of THP generation, allowing you to not only control massive amounts of enemies but also refill an entire healthbar in a few swings, way more than any other option allowed. I think the sweet spot is somewhere in the middle. Not what we have now, but not what shields and shotguns and other “infinite cleave” stagger weapons had. A Greathammer as it was before the patch seems like a good benchmark.

1 Like

The kind of nerd that’s needed for Stagger THP is a cap on the total. That’s it.

The problem with stagger THP (and AoE effects in general) is with no cap, they rack up massive numbers.

Slamming the shield heavy 1 attack is used in a dense horde with massive stagger cleave to get up to sometimes 20hp per hit.

I’ve tried getting cleave instead for my greathammer. I regretted it immediately. Stagger is superior to it on legend, even more so on cata. I was getting reliable THP from it. It didn’t feel overdone.

I agree with the OP, unnecessary nerf… and the temp health gained from shields and similar, was just perfect… it was their niche, a trade of for their low mobility and low damage

Moreover this over-nerf careers like GK too… a really squishy one, that based his defence on temp health too