With the new feats like no ammo spent and shitton of crits lasguns pretti much infinite ammo gun… Ofc auto guns sucks massive cocks
Yeah, you can run revolver Zealot and melee everything only pulling out Revolver to quickly snipe a special or a gunner.
Zealot can be absolutely played as a 90% melee class, and many people do so.
If the game is supposed to be a 50/50 melee/ranged split (while VT2 was 75/25) and one of the ranged specialist classes (vet) is a 50/50 hybrid there is a problem.
Maybe it doesn’t fit what you want out of the game, but turning Vet into some weird hybrid class without any strong identity isn’t good for people who prefer gunplay. At least las weapons still can be played mostly ranged for those who like that kind of stuff.
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90% sure no problem at all i frequently play that way myself but i was replying to
if you read the dev blog i linked its clear from what teh devs said they invision the vet and all classes being some wierd hybrid, monster design is clearly supposed to offer the option mlee or die.
but two issues are getting smudged together here.
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concept of a pure vs hybrid , darktide is a hybrid game. be it 99 to one. melee are meant to have to use ranged and ranged are supposed to have to mlee at least for a time.
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Ammo economy getting fixed the end of being able to use any and all ranged weapons exclusively and not have to make any choices re managing the ammo resource.
it really doesnt matter to me ive played with ranged and melee people its if they do the job that matters. i do think refusing to swap styles when its the right choice is a sign of a bad player, but that cuts both ways.
You kinda dodged my point. Should I take that you are agreeing with me that Vet being 50/50 hybrid currently is bad?
I’m just kinda confused about what is your problem with Vet going 90% ranged if this is a hybrid combat game and melee specialist can easily go 90% melee.
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No, the tide games are traditionally the only games that do close-quarters combat even remotely well. Ammo needs to be severely nerfed, even further than it is now in my opinion. There are, however, still plenty of classes that do not have ammo problems (including veteran).
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He can go 90% ranged no problemo, pick a MGXII and go to town with it.
Sure, let’s make this available for all ranged weapons. 
Jokes aside, I want some ammo for my plasma back. That thing was melee heavy even before the patch.
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no, why would it being a 50/50 be bad? i think right now the vet has the option to hit all the intervals between ranged specialist and melee specialist i think thats good, my one complaint would be on the melee side it doesnt feel like a particulaly unique mechanic.
i think were getting a bit muddled up with different answers to different questions.
the point i have been trying to make is this is a hybrid system, or more accurately is supposed to be. there should be times when the right choice is ranged and same with melee, regardless of how far down the speicialst path you go in either direction there should still always be some need to go the other way
Because it’s a hybrid game and Vet is a ranged specialist. Don’t be so dense. The game always forced you to pull your melee weapon in certain situations, stop acting like it didn’t.
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ok i admit it you have lost me, are you trying to say the vet HAS to be 50/50 now?
Currently, if you aren’t running Shock Trooper + Las weapon, the Veteran gets around a 50/50 (if you are running Survivalist because if you are not you can’t even maintain 50/50).
I see this as a problem.
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I’d add a caveat to this: You can run something closer to 70/30 ranged/melee with non-lasguns IF you steal damn near every ammo pickup on the map.
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But that does back up what I just said. “You can do only melee or only ranged if you want” means that it is clearly factored in with the Game Design.
The game has to be able to support this and clearly it does, because tons of players play that way.
Darktide allows you to play melee only, ranged only or hybrid, although the hybrid playstyle is clearly encouraged by Blessings, Items and Talents alike.
Well first off, the only guns with a semi-infinite ammo pool right now are weapons, that otherwise have an ordinary performance in line with melee weapons. Namely the Lasguns.
Secondly, why not? They could be. Balance in guns doesn’t have to center around the ammo itself, since there are so many other factors.
What makes Flamer and Bolter balanced aside from the ammo factor (that is currently present) is also their slow move, reload and wielding speed.
In the case of the flamer you have limited range, in the case of Bolter mediocre accuracy with weapon sway.
There are games out there where there is an infinite ammo pool to draw from and they balance their options entirely around such factors.
Thanks for linking this. I acknowledge that this seemed to be their idea at first. Interestingly, their vision must have changed then OR they compromised on their own ideas intentionally early on.
From the thread of the talent deep dive in regards to the Zealot, we got this tidbit here:
“The original class [The Zealot] was designed to showcase the melee gameplay and provide a familiar home for our Vermintide veterans. Equipped with a stun grenade and a charge ability, it allowed for an aggressive get-stuck-in melee play style that could bypass the ranged combat and lock the heretics in glorious melee combat.”
Source: Talent Trees Deep Dive
We get two interesting revelations from that post:
- The Zealot as a class was intended to feel familiar to Vermintide players.
- The Zealot was intended to work fully in melee without any ranged options.
It follows by logic, that a game with a full melee option also offers a full ranged option, unless you do have a brawler game on your hand to begin with.
Note the use of language, too. Bypass the ranged combat. To bypass something is a very strong indication of making something completely ignored, circumventing it.
I see what you’re thinking and I understand why you are thinking it.
This is down to the headspace you have (been encouraged to) create/d, by seeing a lot of media with melee fighters called warriors. There is also the historic use of the word and it’s association.
Back in the day, wars were mostly fight in melee. And warrior is an old term. Thus the suggestion of the melee warrior with a sword and shield pops into the mind. However, this is not the true meaning of the word, just the association by proxy with it.
This is really interesting. A warrior in of itself has actually no specialization. The term simply marks a person as a combatant, someone who fights, possibly in a war.
The base root of the term WARrior is contained within. It also has no further qualifiers.
A peasant, who defends his home as it gets invaded by a foreign army, becomes a warrior by association for he has now fought in the war, drafted or not.
Compare with a soldier, who must be in service of a lord or institution to be branded by the term.
There is counter-examples to the melee warrior staple. They come up more rarely, but they do exist.
Summary
TL;DR on this segment: Calling the Veteran a warrior is:
→ linguistically accurate
→ does not signal a specialization in any field of combat
→ signals that he fights in a war (which the Warhammer universe provides)
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ok , thats just not what im experiencing , just been running through damnation pugs with mk 3 and mk 7 headhunter with either of those i can use the gun at all times it makes sense killing most ranged elites/specials and keeping shooters under control , no shock trooper no ammo pickups just the regen aura and ending the mission with still full ammo.
im seeing other vets running recon and hellbore las guns, revolvers, plasma.
but i do find it better to pull out the chainsword and cleave through poxwalkers rather than spend a lot of ammo on them maybe thats the difference?
I’m playing Auric-STG. Haven’t tried HH auto guns, cos it isn’t my thing, so I can’t comment on that.
Revolvers are regularly running low on ammo if you are the main guy trying to take care of elites/specials with your ranged weapon and maybe shoot a few shooters too. It works fine as a quickswap sidearm on a mainly melee build.
Plasma… Plasma apart from being weak now even damage-wise runs dry after 2 rooms if you use it too much. Even before the update it wasn’t worth the ammo to shoot regular shooters. Now it’s a whole lot worse, and not just by the ammo nerfs, the much worse breakpoint for plasma, but that there are double as many specials and a whole lot more elites than before.
Bolter is even worse. You’ll run dry and left scavenging for ammo just shooting elites/specials, and the payoff is close to non-existent.
Do you think you are funny or something?
Seeing you talking about damnation it’s probably a difficulty difference. In Auric-STG my laspistol will run dry just by shooting specials and maybe gunners on a heavy engage VoC melee build if I don’t have Survivalist, even tho I’m killing half the specials and most elites in melee.
BTW it might very well be that on normal Damnation the ammo is enough, but that’s far too easy to me to get any enjoyment out of.
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Even high int damnation for me has swung between maybe needing 1 ammo box to keep us going to swimming in more ammo than we know what to do with.
Perhaps STG and/or Maelstrom modifiers specifically need a default +30% ammo drops modifier included?
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That’s a good question… maybe. There is definitely a huge difference in ammo pressure on STG vs Hi-Int.
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Not only autoguns… shotguns are really bad.
Must admit revolver seems correct actually due to its ammo efficiently
Also, this limits veterans to only one bottom branch. This is so restrictive in term of gameplay for the veterans…
We resume:
You want to play ranged weapons, you better use a lasgun with the template that allow you to no use ammo on critic
You want to play a gun with so low ammo reserve actually, you can only play it with always prepared. But you will still have to watch your fire and be conservative with your ammos
But true, a vet can now be an hybrid melee / ranged. With a weapon that has a decent amount of reserve, it can work and it is even great. However, you run out of ammo fast and have to rely on your melee weapon. However, you will never be as good as a zealot. And here the problem, the ammo economy forbids you to play ranged a lot and you have to rely on melee… but you are far away of what a zealot can do with melee weapons during the entire mission.
With a shotgun, you run out of ammos lot of times in a single mission. I would really not advice this weapon as a vet without always prepared (except if you want to play the hybrid melee ranged)
Actually, the only template that gives me fun with a veteran is the ones with revolver. It is really fun to play with it actually cause it is the most efficient weapon and so… you waste less ammos on a single target. Problem is that we see lot of players now using revolvers…
We tend to never see infantry autoguns…
I really dislike this change… and I believe it impacts a lot of the potential gameplays of the veteran. This class has no keystone and that have reduced drastically ammo. The combination is, in my opinion, what makes (at least for me) less interesting the veteran considering the other choices existing.
Ironically this is the real “obligatory” bottom branch:
Tactical Awareness, Bring it Down, Iron Will, and Confirmed Kill MFW that is a valuable section of the tree. Then Competitive Urge and Rending Strikes beneath those to boot. There’s basically no possible build that doesn’t benefit massively from those talents.
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