The problems with progression

I’ve got a couple 30s and all 300 orange gear and I thought I’d take a minute to point out what I believe are some huge problems with the game, progression in general.

  1. Not only is there no reason to play on anything past recruit for gear progression, unless you are going in with a full squad of friends who are also way overpowered, it is actually detrimental to your progression speed to do so. Spamming recruit to 15 for all of your characters is more than enough to reach 300 item level and is by far faster than trying to do it by running champion, like not even close faster. It took me around 40-50 hours to reach 300 and I’m sure the first 10-15 of that I was clueless to what I was doing.

  2. Once you get to 300 power level unless you care about cosmetics(which I don’t) there is literally no reason to ever play anything past recruit. Salvage becomes the name of the game and since you will always be able to run recruit maps faster than higher difficulty maps, playing on anything other than recruit will only slow you down. Getting your orange gear to perfect rolls is easy, I’m sitting on like 400-500 of the green and blue dust.

  3. While climbing the ranks of gear you move by each piece of gear so fast that taking anytime to look at it or try to craft better stats on it is a waste of your time. Grab the highest power level of piece and que up and replace it next map with a higher power level.

  4. This is maybe my biggest, but I’m putting it at the end because it is not really related to the other 3. Killing things in a map is pointless. The game becomes if you can run by it, run by it. Sprint to the finish line and collect your loot. The game NEEDS to add incentive to killing monsters, it doesn’t need to be huge, but it needs to be there. I can’t tell you how many recruits I join and sprint to the end while letting my teammates die killing things behind me because it is a waste of my time to go help them.

Anyway I love the game, but I think these 4 issues, especially the last one are things that desperately need attention.

Thanks.

3 Likes

There is a reason to play higher difficulties, after a certain point lower difficulties just get boring. And getting up to 300 item level through commendation chests from grinding levels on recruit would probably take ages.

The last one is really on you, why don’t you just help your teammates, why do you run through? You even get less xp if not everyone is alive at the end. If it’s just all for the loot chest for you then I guess that’s your problem. Giving incentives for killing in a game with infinite spawns would just lead to people farming hordes for hours on one mission. Not killing all enemies is also part of the game sometimes, just look at how patrols are desinged.

This is not an MMO, the point if the game is not to farm mobs or get infinite gear progression.

2 Likes

noob here… How the heck can I get power 300 items from power 100 restricted recruit boxes? Or are you saying there’s some way to get 300 power items from commendation crates with just level 15 characters?

I got to 300 without ever completing a champion and rarely doing veteran. It took about 40 hours and my methods weren’t refined for the first bunch of hours.

People respawn to revive throughout the whole level.

You can easily put a cap on the amount of xp you get from kills. Say you get 1xp per 5 minions, 1 xp per elite, 2 xp per special, and 5 xp per boss with a total cap of obtainable xp at 100-200 per mission.

he uses the 300 ilvl gear(neck trinket charm) from the chars that he has. Thats why he gets 300+/-10 ilvl gears on his lover lvl chars from the comm chests

Believe it or not some ppl play this game for fun and for killing stuff, completing levels, having fun with friends.
If you like running through stuff and then complaining about it on forums go play temple run or something, and dont sh.itpost at action rpg forums pls. That way will be better for you and the community who plays the game for fun.

3 Likes

Commendation chests from leveling give up to 300 and using the salvage you get from the other loot crafts gear up to 300. If you play on a easy level where you know where all the tomes/grims are you can usually get a generals box and get near 10 salvage out of the box. Recruit deeds are the best with 2 chests + a commendation if you level.

1 Like

What you have equipped doesn’t determine what you get out of crafts or chests, it’s just based on the highest level of gear you have ever gotten in that slot.

For some of us, me and my friends that play as well as many others, efficiency is what we find fun. I’m not knocking what way you have fun with the game, don’t knock the way I do.

These are just some of the problems me and the people I’m playing with are having with the game, so I thought the feedback section would be the right spot for it.

Your “problems” with the game seem to stem from the way you look at the game. You seem evaluate strategies based on how much resources (crafting materials) it gives in a given time. This is at least what I gather from statements like

Salvage becomes the name of the game and since you will always be able to run recruit maps faster than higher difficulty maps, playing on anything other than recruit will only slow you down

I can’t tell you how many recruits I join and sprint to the end while letting my teammates die killing things behind me because it is a waste of my time to go help them.

Your points are valid if you view the game as a resource grinder, where the objective of the game is to get as much resources as possible as fast as possible. Many however don’t view the game like that. Rhetorical question: What’s the point of playing Doom 2 on “nightmare” when the easiest difficulty (“I’m too young to die”) is much easier and faster?

3 Likes

Then i wonder why i got instant lvl 100 items from recruit chest on my lvl 1 char after equipping the mentioned items from my main…
Also theres no point in collectiong resources at that point where you doing it… and it is not the goal of the game either. Resources are just a tool to be able to change the gear the way you like without having to rely on luck. If you still want to play the resource collectionist, then you rly need to find an appropriate game where thats the main point. Its like going to a RTS game and demanding FPS mode on forum because thats your and your friends feedback and preference…

You would have gotten instant 100s without equipping anything if you had another toon past that point already.

I agree that once you get to full 300 orange gear salvage becomes pointless, but I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want to do all the time leading up to full 300s as quickly as possible. And the time we are talking about here is probably more time than the average person that picks this game up will put into it, so I feel this is a pretty important part of the game to make as good as possible, so hopefully those people keep playing instead of quitting.

The progress of learning the game and going to higher difficulties and challenges, not just starting out at legend. Most ppl who never played vermintide has a learning curve, and the current system is fine for that imo, it will be even better if they patch the powerlvl scaling (see the thread about it,its actual, the dev explained the stuff last night)It might be hard to start for some ppl, easier for others(VT1 vets, DS vets… like me…), but ppl will gradually get better.(last time i saw some ppl struggling on vet, half my match consisted of carrying them, the other half was explaining game mechanics, giving advices and YT vids to check out…) Thats why most ppl play, and the time while you get to 300 with your first char is just fine, you learn the game, find your preferred char, weapons, playstile. After that you just need to concentrate to lvl other chars without the struggle to farm gear.

You’re not understanding what I’m saying. I’m not saying I don’t want there to be time to get to 300 I’m saying I want it to be better and longer. I don’t like replacing every piece of gear ever other match. I want to use a piece of gear for a dozen matches, or more, before I replace it, so I actually care about it’s quality, stats, and rolls. The way the game is now you replace your gear so fast that it becomes pointless to care about any of it until you hit 300, that is bad design.

1 Like

And you dont need to… The gear you get from chests or craft are +/-10 PL from your highest seen, im not sure but you dont even need to get higher lvls separately on every item, so you are not forced to equip it in order to progress to higher ilvls… I changed my gear about 5 times max on my way to 300. And you still can care about your items on the way to 300 because good stats can make your life easier no matter the lvl of the item.

1 Like

Hitting the breakpoints where your damage and stagger levels go up, which are pretty frequent, is much more important than the stats on your gear, aside from certain characters with certain legendary talents(critics reduing over charge, +50% damage on block, arrows on headshots, etc…).

You’re right that you don’t technically have to change gear, but why you wouldn’t when it would make you more powerful I don’t know.

I’ll just give you a quick example of what a better system would be:

Instead of 1-300 we make it 1-10. To get a sword from 1 to 2 you need to combine 2 lv 1 swords in the cube. From 2 to 3, combine 2 lv 2 swords and so on.

Then make recruit boxes drop lv 1s, veterans lv 2, champion lv 3, and legend lv 4. And make the difficulty of recruit based on lv 1s, the difficulty of vet based on lv 3s, the difficulty of champion based on lv 5s and the difficulty of legend based on lv 8s.

At 3 pieces of loot per run getting from lv 1 to lv 2 would take an average of 3~ runs to get to all lv 2. From 2 to 3 would take an average of 7 runs. Then move up to vet where you need 7 runs to get to 3 and 14 runs to get to 4 and 28 runs to 5. Then move to champion where you need 14 runs to 6 and 28 runs to 7 and 56 runs to 8 when. Then you’re ready for legend where it’s 28 runs to 9 and 56 runs to 10.

This system allows you to use the piece of gear you want while slowly building to the next tier and eventual change. It also allows you to progress at any difficulty but makes doing the next difficulty up much faster for progression when you can handle it. And is relatively power level proof while still giving some way to help your friends catch up as the highest gear you can instantly get a friend is lv 4. It also gives a progressions system with a relatively fast start and an ending that really starts to slow at the time when you really should start caring about stats and talents on your gear. It gives around 150 matches to get to the point where you are ready for legend and still gives another 80 matches in legend where progression is possible.

So… It is MOST efficient to get a single character fully maxed out before you start looking at other characters and store up as many commendations chests as possible.

I guess the only reason to open boxes early on then is to get green weapons for their dust?

It doesn’t really matter what order you level them or open stuff in. The system just goes “what’s the highest level slot 1 this account has opened” and spawns it based on that. So if you open a box on witch and get a 150 halberd then switch to dwarf and open a box it will base his slot 1’s on that 150.

but recruit isn’t fun? Like awesome you can plow through content and gear up trivially that sounds fun… zzzzz, people play legend because its challenging and tests your mechanical skils, gear just happens to be a benefit for hard work i.e reds and cosmetics.

only if you’re bad

Post me videos of people who are below 250 doing champion in under 10 minutes reliably, that’s about what it would take to outpace recruit spam. Also what would be so bad about giving better incentive to playing harder difficulties? That’s mostly what I’m saying the game is lacking.

Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu