Pft, most people in beta saved their boxes for release and were doing beta champion in like 140 power level gear at best, and that version of champion is closer to Legend in release form. Also why 250? You were have to have such bad gear since power is level x10 + average of equipped gear.
the 10 minutes is what I really care about. I’m not saying champ is hard, it’s pretty easy, it just takes longer. I’ve been searching and found basically 1 so far.
The experience difference and fact you are generating better loot faster more than makes up for 2-3 min of additional time, if your end goal is pushing 300 as fast as possible.
I’ve looked through about 50 champion videos so far. I’ve found 1 below 10 minutes(which was a full 300 premade) and nearly every other one comes in at 22-27 minutes. Even with full pugs I do my recruits in 7-12 minutes and with full friends it’s always 6-7 minutes, the difference in xp and loot level does not even come CLOSE to comparing to that, like not even the same ballpark.
my average screaming bell legend run is 12 min so /shrug, people have posted 4:30 second speed runs of the same map on legend, you’re watching the wrong videos.
so lets take your average than. i can do 2 runs in the time you do 1 on screaming bell… meaning i get about 50% more xp per minute than you, meaning more commendations, and double the salvage as i finish 2 maps to your 1. coupled with the fact that you can do this on low level toons that get an average of a level per run up til 10 means that i get 4 chests to your 1 chest, 2 of which are the same drop quality. It is not close. Not by a long shot.
I’ll assume you never saw how gear/progress works in this game.
Once you get to a certain point, you can acquire bonus xp and better chests on higher difficulties. Let’s say you kicked it up to veteran, you would receive even more boxes to increase the gear progress as you wouldn’t be solely relying on commendation chests. It’s actually much slower to spam recruit because you can only ever get boxes at 100. Opening boxes with a cap of 100(recruit strongboxes) can’t increase your item level past 100. So if a commendation chest gets you to 105, opening any number of strongboxes will be pointless towards your item level progression. Whereas completing levels of higher difficulties provides a chest every time you win vs every level.
You can only get reds(gear) from general/emperor Champion boxes and all Legend boxes.
Statistically speaking, the amount of rolls you would need would be ungodly in order to acquire both properties you want and the maximum roll for those properties. That 400-500 isn’t going to get you very far.
The game isn’t designed with people of your mindset. You’re definitely a minority in this sense and it’s unrealistic to expect the company to try and cater to this very unique problem you are essentially self-creating. I get what you’re saying, but it’s illogical in regards to this game’s design and genre. If you love speed running on easy mode, then I don’t know what anyone is supposed to tell you. Just do what you enjoy.
You have a finite amount of times you can level a character up from level 1. And those chests on recruit can’t exceed ilvl 100. Each run you make, you receive a chest that’s only good for salvage. Why the hell are you playing a grind game on a horde killing game? That doesn’t even make sense. I don’t understand why you want the developers to try to cater to this off-the-wall way of playing this genre of game.
400 for recruit+ 100 for peeps alive + 225 for grims and tomes thats 725 exp, legend gives 1320 almost double, your math is wrong.
Yes i didn’t see you said legend. You would get the same amount of xp as I get, but would be playing on toons that are not levels 1-15 so would still get MUCH less commendations, although not quite as much lower as I said.
This game could EASILY have all of the things you want AND the things I want with VERY small tweeks. Why wouldn’t a company want their game to cater to both types of people if it is easy to do so? I am not asking for ANY changes to end game, which is all you are talking about. I am asking to make the grind from 1-300 better, and please read this as better and not faster, it is already too fast, I did it in like 3 days. I would even be happy with simply lowering how much you get out of lower level difficulties or removing commendation chests.
No matter the industry it never fails. Customers always think that doing everything they want is easy and reasonable without knowledge (or sometimes even thought) of the ramifications or limitations. Dunning Kruger is an insidious thing, you literally cannot know how off base such claims can be without having the very knowledge you lack.
Even if you are sure of a conclusion, if it’s not your area of specialization the reasonable stance is one of humility. Sometimes even if it’s your area of specialization. Hofstadter’s law “it always take longer than you expect, even when taking into account Hofstadter’s law” is applied to complex tasks like programming. Similarly you should always assume it’s more complex than you think it is and doubly so if it’s not your area of expertise.
So lowering the amount of drops on lower level difficulties would be a hard thing to change?
The problem: A tiny subset of People are voluntarily sacrificing their own enjoyment to grind a lower difficulty to progress marginally faster. Said players are looking to exhaust game content in the fastest way possible, meaning they will usually be amongst the first players to leave. They want changes to make their stay, albeit brief, more enjoyable. In essence they wish to be protected from their own poor decisions.
The change: Lower the amount of drops on lower difficulties to save said players from themselves.
The Ramifications: Lowering the amount of drops will lessen the experience for new players, especially in the tougher than normal 0-100 hero power range. This is likely to decrease retention rates of new players who are not playing the game at max efficiency like the players affected by the problem this change addresses.
The difficulty: Pleasing your majority audience who play the game normally while also pleasing a tiny subset audience who will exhaust your game content as fast as they possibly can and then leave.
I have already had 3 people quit this game because of how fast you pass by loot and another 2 that won’t play it because of how the loot works. Players want to actually use the loot that drops for more than 2-3 matches before it becomes obsolete.
Admittedly, lowering the amount of stuff that drops is a crappy band-aid at best. How about Increase the range of breakpoints for power level from every 10-15 to somewhere between every 10-50 power rank starting more frequently at low levels and slowing down as you reach the end. Also make this known, so a player can use the same thing until he is able to jump 50 lvs up.
I really like this game, I’ve already put nearly 100 hours into it, I want my friends to like it, but unlike me they weren’t able to stomach the loot system and power through to 300. And I really do think there could be some small tweaks that would really make the game a much better experience from 1-300.
I think you might be a bit confused since you are assuming that your perspective is the norm. In game I’ve encountered your minority perspective more than your majority perspective.
In a general sense, this thread raises a very valid question, why even bother with optimizing sub 300 equipment if your view of the game is progression? Possibly that you could reforge oranges at current power?
Personally I’m not looking for a grind, I’m looking for a game mode where you routinely fail 50%+ of the time with premades, which isn’t offered in this game currently except for deeds which don’t drop when close to regularly enough. In effect legendary is a cake walk with the right gear and talents.
I didn’t see anyone answer your question so I will.
Basically, yes. Get one character through Veteran to the point that you max the Veteran Chests. Once you are at item power level 200 you can open the commendations chest to push your item power level up to 300. On average figure about 1 chest per item power level, give or take RNG.
Step 1. Level 1 character through Vet to item power level 200.
Step 2. Level the other characters to around level 10. It should only take a few runs with each to do that.
Step 3. Open commendation chests.
Character level affects the quality of items coming out of the chest so expect whites and greens if you’re opening Commendation Chests on a low level character. The will still increase your item power level but they wont be very good to use.
if people are quitting because of how fast you pass by on loot, it means they’re not even enjoying the game at it’s core, which is the combat system. you think there’s a big difference between a 2h hammer that’s power level 200 vs 250? the main difference is the player’s skill using it, not how many digits it pushes out on the target dummy.
if they take your suggestion and lengthen the time it takes for you to get to 300, maybe +1 item power level every new lootbox u get, then you would immediately get threads complaining that it takes too long to get there. why? because that’s not the main game. fatshark wants everyone to learn the basics quick, and then play on an even level field of gear, so that SKILL will be the deciding factor of play, and not because of a lack of items.
2 Likes
ok , i think your base assumptions might be a little misplaced, this isn’t an mmo it doesn’t have a real progression grind the loot is almost entirely pointless and its easy and fairly cheap to craft the gear for any build. even the so called end game gear , red items arent more powerful than a perfect roll yellow.
isnt there a possibility that this is done on purpose? that maybe this game isnt meant to tie you to a progression treadmill that its just a game you can pick up and play when you feel like it simply because its fun to do so?
does every game really need to be a job?
1 Like
After you get hero power 600, the goal would be to clear all maps on legendary. And then to do heroic deeds to challenge yourself. If that doesn’t interest you, I’d say you’ve still got a hell of a good deal for 30 bucks.
I mean, if you don’t enjoy the combat or slaying rats for the sake of it, why are you playing this game? I think the amount of progression in the game is really at a sweet spot.
1 Like
While I liked it at first, I do think that implementng the ‘power’ system was a mistake, and that the original item system present in vermintide 1 encouraged longer term play than this current system.
You mentioned most of my issues, the biggest ones being that while leveling up you’re constantly replacing your weapons, making most of the crafting or fine-tuning options feel like a waste of time, and then, once you’ve capped out, there’s hardly any reason to keep playing as oranges with the skills and percentages you want are relatively easy to get while reds are nearly impossible.
Perhaps a stronger system might be to get rid of ‘upgrading’ rarity entirely, and changing weapon power to be tied to rarity, mimicking the system from vermintide 1. For example, white items would always have a power of 50, green would have 100, blue 200, and orange/red 300. Level would also give up to 300 power to allow players to get increasingly stronger as they gained levels.
Then, change the upgrade/reroll economy to use different kinds of powder based on rarity. For example, greens would only need green powder to reroll their stats, while blues would need blue powder, and oranges need orange powder. Finally bring back the ability to reroll JUST the stats, not the kind of stat.
In vermintide 1 I had to work for that perfect orange weapon. In v2 I just spent 50 scrap upgrading a random 300 power blue I had and rerolled it a couple of times with the huge pile of blue powder I unintentionally horded. It ended up being a hollow achievement, and being decked in well-rolled orange gear doesn’t feel nearly as good in this game.