Developer Blog - Progression Rework


Design Director Joakim breaks down the upcoming rework of progression systems and new player experience.

Hi, my name is Joakim Setterberg and I’m the Design Director on Vermintide 2. The season of Geheimnisnacht, pumpkins, and general spookiness is upon us, and on behalf of the team, I’d like to share some upcoming changes coming to Vermintide 2.

Over the last year, we’ve touched on nearly all areas of Vermintide 2 to improve the core experience of the game with a wide range of features, updates, and improvements. I’m sure Saltzpyre would agree that like an old Reikland wine, we are not aging, we are delicately maturing. One thing we haven’t done though is to address some of the frustrations and issues we’re seeing for players that are new to the game. With the upcoming Versus mode being an opportunity for new players to jump in and experience the End Times, we want to make some improvements to our onboarding and progression to help those new recruits to stick around.

Let’s start out with the issues we’re seeing:

  • If you’re starting as a new player, the restrictions on Hero and Power levels make it hard for you to play together with experienced players until you have leveled up. This is particularly tough if you’ve been recommended to play Vermintide 2 by a high-level friend.
  • The time investment to level up a Hero or career is quite significant, making it a slow grind to unlock a fun playstyle and/or promote a behavior where players feel the need to play (Screaming Bell) repeatedly on lower difficulties.
  • The Spoils of War chest rewards are varied enough, but the gear journey can be unsatisfying due to random factors, and promotes Commendation Chest hoarding until you’ve reached higher Item Power levers.
  • The drop rates for the Spoils of War are not visible to players, which results in community guesswork and a lack of motivation to play certain difficulties.

So going forward, what are we changing to improve the Ubersreik 5 experience?

Unlocking Difficulty

First off, we’re removing any Hero Power restrictions for Private games. This should make it easier for a mixed group of friends to find a difficulty they can tackle together (and if said friends think your first experience should be Legend then… well, friendship carries a long way). It is also a chance for new players to check out the higher difficulties and practice for those Legend runs.

We’ve also removed the Hero Power restriction for the Veteran difficulty for Public games. We believe that Veteran can be a suitable entry point for players familiar with similar games, like Darktide, and are looking for a more challenging experience. However, we are keeping the Public restrictions for Champion and Legend as a necessary skill-check (although we have lowered those requirements just a tad) - the same goes for Cataclysm.

Introducing Experience Multipliers

To tweak the time investment for leveling we are (re-)introducing Difficulty Multipliers to the experience gains when playing a mission. When completing a mission you will now get the regular XP gain multiplied by an additional 0.25 for each difficulty level:

  • 1x for Recruit (same as current)
  • 1.25x for Veteran
  • 1.5x for Champion
  • 1.75x for Legend and Cataclysm

We hope that this better motivates and rewards players leveling - especially when progressing their other careers that have unlocked and gotten access to better equipment like necklaces, charms, and trinkets.

For our PC players, Versus will have its own game mode-specific progression, but doing things like completing matches will also feed into the main progression.

Reworking Spoils of War

To make the journey to get better gear both faster and more interesting, we are making some significant changes to the way Spoils of War rewards work.

All gear has an Item Power value attached to it that indicates how good it is. Without going into detail, the way Item Power rewards are currently calculated is based on an average obtained Item Power level with a random modifier attached to it, which leads to players getting generally slightly better loot than they previously have obtained. We are now changing this to be a range based on Hero Level, Difficulty played, and Chest Tier.

So when completing a mission you will get a Spoils of War chest, like normal. The rewards it contains will be within a range defined by your Hero Level, with a floor and ceiling cap based on the Difficulty. Recruit is capped out at an Item Power level of 100, Veteran at 200, and Champion and beyond at 300. Chest Tiers, upgraded by Ranald’s Blessings, Tomes, Loot Die, and Grimoires, will raise the floor of the range to push the rewards to higher Item Power levels. As you level up your Hero, the range first expands and subsequently narrows toward the higher end of the range.

With Spoils of War rewards being dependent on the Hero level when obtaining the chest, a chest obtained in level 1 will now yield level 1 Item Power rewards, regardless of when opening it. Thus, we are removing an incentive to hoard chests when leveling up, and instead aim for players to continuously open chests for more satisfying “jumps” in Item Levels (over the current flattened grind).

Related to this we are also changing the Rarity rates for rewards to not factor in Hero Levels. Again, we are simplifying the way the system works to make rare loot drops possible in every game. You will now almost always have a chance to get Common, Rare, Exotic, and even Veteran items from a game, but by playing on higher Difficulties and upgrading your Chest Tiers you will simply increase your chances for the rarer items. This means that you don’t have to have that perfect book run to get a cool reward and that you might get lucky finding a rare weapon even when starting out playing the game.

Veteran items will always be maxed out within your current Item Power level range.

In addition, we’re also changing how we decide what weapon skin you get when opening a Veteran weapon in a chest. You will now, if possible, get a non-unlocked veteran skin before defaulting back to a random skin. We’re also making it possible to obtain DLC weapons from chests (as long as you’ve unlocked all requirements for said weapons)

We hope that these changes will incentivize players to open Spoils of War more regularly as they progress, especially Commendation chests, rather than hoarding them - but we will of course be open to your feedback for any adjustments to all of the systems previously mentioned.

Crafting Changes

“Hold on, drengbarazi, surely you aren’t reworking crafting as well?”

Well, we are making some changes to it to align it with the rewards rework. So first off the items you craft will be based on your Hero level, similar to chests, with Veteran rarities set to the max of your possible range. However, upgrading to Veteran will only be available for Hero level 30 or above to ensure that players don’t spend their crafting materials at a point where they will come to regret it later.

The crafting economy will see some tweaks where we’re generally lowering upgrade costs by decreasing the amount of Scraps needed, but also requiring a small amount of Dust. To balance this we will be giving players more Dust when converting higher rarity Dust into lower rarities.

Oh, and we are also making sure that item properties and traits remain after an upgrade, so you will now be able to more reliably tinker with your favorite gear.

Showing the Numbers

As you can see, these are significant changes we are doing to the item and rewards system. Our intention is simplification, but we can’t do that without making it all understandable in-game. With this update, we are providing additional information in the Difficulty Select menu screen, as well as for individual Spoils of War chests, where the Item Power range and rarity percentages are clearly visible. Again, we hope that this clears up any confusion and motivates players to push for harder Difficulties and increased Chest Tiers, as the Ubersreik 5 can more clearly see what to expect in terms of potential rewards.

Introducing the Handbook

On the note of showing things, there is a lot of information a new player needs to understand about how the game works. Everyone gets to play the Prologue in the beginning, but after that we are pretty much throwing the players into the fight against Skaven, Chaos, and Beastmen without further onboarding. So far it’s been working OK, but there are a lot of nuances and mechanics to the game that you as a community have (very helpfully) had to relay through forums and social posts. We want to provide that same information in-game without adding more tutorials you need to play through, so we are happy to announce the in-game Handbook, available both as a Menu, with an interaction point in the Keep, and as helpful pop-ups when reaching key moments in the progression.

The Handbook is a collection of images and short videos explaining the mechanics and systems of Vermintide 2. Initially, we’ve focused on the basics, but there is room to expand this feature in the future to dig deeper into specific game knowledge for our various game modes. Make sure to feedback and comment for features that you would really have liked to see when starting out (or even have missed as a veteran player)!

So when do you get to see this?

We’re aiming to have this out for the release of Versus later this fall. Due to certification and submission processes on consoles being slower than on PC, we’re hoping to get those platforms on an even footing shortly after.

We will also get around to some additional career balancing around the same time - more details at a later date - but for Geheimnisnacht we’ve snuck in an initial fix addressing the Outcast Engineer bomb cooldown bug.

Also we haven’t forgotten about Adventure - here’s a little teaser image for something that will come out in just a bit.

On behalf of the Vermintide production team and Fatshark, thank you for all the support and memes throughout the year - and stay hyped for a packed finale of 2024!

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how unexpected. the long progressive gating of levels kept many a hero from dabbling properly into the expunging of chaos from Sigmar’s realm. so I am really hoping I can drag people back into this game with this criticism addressed. also is it this fall? I hope I hope for VS. I didn’t want to commit the harddrive space last time for just a week, but it needs to come back.

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Oh, that looks gorgeous! I can’t wait to hear more about this Adventure on top of all these great QoL changes! Thanks, Quickpaw :blue_heart:

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These are looking to be great changes!
I do wonder why these changes are being made now when we’re 6 & a half years after the game launched, people have been giving tons of feedback on the new player experience the entire time. I’m really curious to know what’s going on inside Fatshark. But anyways, better late than never.

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Amazing. Looking forward to get a few friends into the game. Can’t you become the design director as well?

Thx I recently helped a friend (new player) level up, and due to coaching from us, he was much better than the level we were able to play at. This made it frustrating, but hopefully these changes fix that.

To people who still want to level quickly:

  • Chaos Wastes Weekly
  • Book runs
  • In the current system: equip highest Hero Power gear before opening chests and crafting, even if it’s items you’re not using

This all looks really nice.

New illusions having an RNG mercy mechanic would’ve come in handy for me hundreds of hours ago but better late then never.

The only thing I’m not a super big fan of, is the XP multiplier for higher difficulties.
That does have up- and downsides. I, f.e. would’ve appreciated this way back when I was leveling new characters as that would’ve made it much faster in a natural way.
What I’m against is the fact that the XP rewards weren’t linked to the difficulty because that way, you’re not insentivised to play a difficulty you’re not ready for.

By far the most annying aspect to playing DT, is having to carry teammates that clearly aren’t ready for that missions difficulty and are only playing it because the risk / reward for them is better than playing on a difficulty, they belong on. But by doing that, they risk wasting everyones time. It’s not their fault directly but the game shouldn’t insentivise that behaviour.
This was an aspect that I praised VT2s design to high heavens for and now that’s being changed.

This wont make a difference to me personally now as I’ve always had to carry my randoms in VT2 but this will annoy the same crowd of people that want more resticted access to Maelstrom missions in DT, calling it now.

Very likely an unpopular take from me but I’m dying on this hill.

I also really appreciate the handbook, that was needed for a very long time now.

My best guess; we would’ve seen changes like these far earlier if DT wasn’t being developped alongside updating VT2.

I understand the two games have different teams but we’ve heard so many stories of teams having to help out troubled projects and being pulled off of their actual projects.

Makes sense to do this now, with the upcomming release of versus. I just wouldn’t be surprised if DTs team needed more hands than they had initially.

Also on the OE Bomb change not going live:

Lots of us think that still won’t change how strong he is rn.

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The question remains how to dispose of 100 unnecessary items in one click

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Exactly my thoughts. I’d bet it’s because of how slowly the game is coming to its end - it’s no longer necessary to force players to grind for years.

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Heyo! Super hype for this. I’m tempted to delete my save and start over to try it out.

One thing I’m stuck up on that stands out to me.

You mention that: “As you level up your Hero, the range first expands and subsequently narrows

I just wanted to check with you on how fast the ceiling raises compared to the floor. Lets say for example that a group of new players have all completed the same Recruit difficulty missions together and are…let’s say, theoretically, level 10, with a max item power of 100. Will the floor still stay at power level 5 at that low of a character level? Or is it more like the floor raises at half the value that the ceiling does, so the range would be closer to 50-100 instead?

I’d think that a range of 5-100 (without books/loot dice) could result in too wide of a result early on, maybe one player gets lucky with a 100 power level weapon and is now ready for Veteran, while a 2nd player gets super unlucky and their highest roll is a power level 25 item. I’d imagine that would feel pretty bad for the 2nd player having put in a similar amount of work as their friend. So yeah, was just looking for some more detail in regards to that aspect of the progression system.

And last thing I wanted to ask. The Recruit difficulty Commoner’s Chest (no books run) that you use as an example has a range of 94-100. What character level is that for? I’m guessing 18 based on the number of commendation chests. Which would maybe fit closer to the 50-100 estimate that I made for someone at level 10.

As always big love to the team, and a big thank you for all the work that went into this, Cheers!

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wow the new map looks very cool!

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HEARTFELT THANKS TO YOU FATSHARK.

Seriously, I’m glad you guys finally reworked so many of these things I always thought were too much for new people (they were for me, but I pushed through cos I had the time to do that last year. Not everyone can afford reading for hours or grinding stuff).

I’m certain the grind and unexplained mechanics killed the interest of a large % of players, and once these changes are live, I hope more people come check out the game and stay all the way for cataclysm.

I’m not sure what the bug was with outcast engi, but if that nerfs the career a little, YES YES YES THANKS.

Cool screenshot of the new map!

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The reason was ironically… to make characters level faster. We have the accelerated progression already compared to year one.

Patch 1.5 Feb’ 2019 (just under a year after release)

"End of level experience gains from difficulties beneath Legend now match those of Legend.

We want to smooth out the progression curve for players across the board. If a player doesn’t feel comfortable playing on a higher difficulty their level progression would be severely stifled, further increasing the time it takes for their character to reach a Hero Power that would make it easier to bridge the gap.

Very happy as had a friend start playing recently.
The question I have though is does this stop the Item Power grind so you simply get to level 30 to get Power 300 items. Or shift it?
Will we be able to Empower lower power items to 300? ala Darktide’s new system?

Eh, most of these changes don’t do anything for me, might be nice for the odd newcomer, but 7 years in, isn’t this a little late to implement these features? Would have been nice to have the illusions RNG mercy mechanic like…6 years ago? Same with getting DLC weapons via chests.

Are you atleast going to release some new DLC weapon illusions? Because all the DLC weapons are lacking in skin varieties.

I rather something across all player base, like a kind of enemy practice room that lets us practice on live enemies or maybe a more comprehensive weapons stats menu that includes hidden stats like cleave, dodge count, etc. Teach players about weapon techs, what constitutes as armour piercing, enemy armour types, etc.

Hmmmm…looks like autumn in Athel Yenlui. Wooded areas…

Any plans on adding more new enemies? Especially for BEASTMEN? God I really really hope you are more Beastmen specials and elites. Maybe an extra boss so each faction have 2.

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I gotta say, the handbook was a long time coming. Most likely it would be very useful for Darktide players as well, so someone tell the DT team to get a move on that.

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Reikwald Forest looking nice xd

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I hope deeds can be reworked/reverted so anyone can join in!

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Rather they just revamp it.

Just let us pick the modifiers as we please in Custom games.

I don’t care for the deeds except that I wish for ALL of my games to always have the "spawn more hordes all the time" modifier.

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