The Overrepresentation of Sharpshooters

Zealot is best is melee. You want another top damage class that’s more melee orientated? Wait for an assassin class.

Honestly, your whole post about how small things you would give up immortality for shows how little you know about the strength of the zealot.

This, this here shows how bad you are at zealot. How many times I have to say? Learn to play. You will have a wonderful time when it clicks.

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No, zealot is THE tankiest melee, only class that has health regen ability.
However he is also clearly designed to dance around with low hp and insta filling toughness, this playstyle however was destroyed by melee bleedthrough.A
Also the over abundance of ranged enemies that stagger and stunlocks you makes rushing into melee a deathsentence
FIRST you need to kill ranged the enemies AND ONLY then you can go in.

I would IMMEDIATELY give up immortality on 90 sec CD, health regen and non existent low hp playstyle
With more toughness, more toughness regen and a talent that removes stunlock from range denemies AND their absurd dmg to toughness multiplication.
Bam you have a class that ACTUALLY can go into f-cking Melee to tie up enemies.
Nowadays I have so much more fun with veteran, his entire kit just works with itself, unlike zealots

And when you learn to read with comprehension and actually think for the answer you write, you will realize when it clicks what an idiot you are :smiley:

Skill issue. Do you want to bomb rush 4 reapers or something? What class can do that? I’ve only seen zealots pulling it off… Oh, wait…


No, I want to charge a gunline of ± 10 basic ranged enemies. Which if you didnt know delete your toughness and damnation 5 in less than 1 second.
My idea when i started this game was “i will assault them, and as the tutorial shown me. They will swap to melee”
This is however is not working 70% of the time when they just continue to shoot.
This obviously lead to the c-ncer annoying spam slide meta which just busts my balls on how much I hate it.
When I realized this game isnt Vermintide, but Rangedtide and I started playing at such =
shoot enemies for 80% of the time, bein a worse veteran AND THEN go into the fights.
This drasticaly increased my winrate its hillarious.
THen when f-cking finally something gets into close combat and I can be my class, I whip out my turtolsky and go into town - things are looking well but then a crusher appears with bulwark bodyguards - I prepare a nade to go fight for the Emperor - but then I see veteran spam 3 nades which will regen soon after, and press a button on his power sword and cleave throug 20 mobs, crushers, bulwarks and a couple of planets - I look down on the turtolsky and ask myself “why am I playing zealot?”

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Ehhhhh that’s really not even that central to playing Zealot TBH. If it were you’d see things more heavily skewed towards holy rev yet TWBS is the crowd favourite for the most part.

People are also overrating new Psyker horde force sword a bit TBH, probably because Psyker just didn’t have a heavy duty horde clearing melee weapon at all before outside maybe BM Caxe but that’s a bit of a stretch.

Anyway Zealot is fine, the overall power creep all over the place is a bit more concerning to me. The he T Hammer animation cancel fix really hurts though, I do hope they reconsider that or the endlag in general. I don’t think I’ll be seeing many people run the OG T Hammer anymore between that fix and the new one just kinda outclassing it mostly.

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Yeah, but that just shows how strong Zealot is. You can play without it, but the extra lifeline that recharges every 90 seconds is just insane.

Heavy disagree on this one. I played a few maps with it (slaughterer only) and it is pretty bonkers against both horde and shooter groups. I’d probably switch to this on Veteran if I could, no need to charge with increased AS, and a better attack pattern is dope. It performs worse against ragers and maulers than PS tho, but running AB build it’s a non-issue (and I use plasma on vet currently so…).

Also, it seems to also have baseline bullet deflection which is weird. Probably I need to do a bit more testing with that.

Edit: Probably Illisi wouldn’t be that good on Veterans since it doesn’t have the around +40% damage boost constantly that Psyker now has, but still…

I know you want everything near shotgun/catachan level, so I get where you are coming from. New weapons and more buffs pretty much cement where FS wants the weapon balance to be, so I think moving on to asking for harder content is probably going to be a better direction.

BTW I think you should try the new map mods before you make a judgment tho. The shock troop gauntlet I played was pretty brutal (don’t remember if it was high-int or not but probably was), we only took 1 grim, but with 2 grims there would have been 1 or 2 close calls.

Well that is definitely an exaggeration. Both those weapons are ones I’d genuinely put in the category of “needs buffs”. But yeah the more skill expression the better to my mind, that much is definitely true.

I don’t like grims as a difficulty modifier since they mess around with optimal curio loadout too much and curio farming is pain. Regarding modifiers yeah I like the look of those but not getting excited about them till we can actually pick what we want to run. Maybe I just feel like high int or normal Damn tonight but all I can see is low int or Vent purge snipers + high int. If they ever pull the trigger on letting us select modifiers or some equivalent yeah I’ll agree that’ll mitigate difficulty issues to a good degree.

Yeah, I exaggerated a bit (just a little bit /s), but dif6 is the way to go now I think if the game isn’t challenging enough for you.

You do you, I guess. I’m actually seeing why it is like this and am pretty okay with it now they increased the mission pool in the last patch, but I also understand the downsides.

Edit: Still check that shock troop gauntlet when it appears. It’s super good.

I think Shock Gauntlet has that old Hi Intensity bug applied in the background. You still encounter and pull massive ambient spawns all game and shooter patrols from behind occur like Hi Intensity even if its not tagged as well, along with tons of monsters and daemons. Didn’t even notice a difference between the 2 tbh.

This tread should be closed asap.
It is going on for so long now and the complete thing gives out a vibe that is harmful to players who are new or easy to influence in bad ways.

Following and reading enough treads on this forum leads to the conclusion, that there are certain individuals that we can count on 2 hands, that are strong and aggressively trying to push narratives and advocate for very specific changes.
Changes that would affect the way one of 4 classes work and perform drastically worse, what would also make said class less fun to play. Those who theorize about what ability they want to be downed and how hard it should be downed on the class they are less likely to play, think that it would change their experience and performance on the class they are more likely to play.

And there is a pattern to see in EVERY tread that directly or just slightly goes into the direction of
‘‘Vet to stronk! Nerf this and that’’. It is almost every time the same group of main class players that debate and demand nerfs on the Veteran.
There are already Veteran players now, that are pushed and influenced by all that controversial treads about the Power Sword, that they hinder their own performance in the game, because they fear to be seen as someone who uses a melee weapon, that some people on the internet say only NOOBS would use.

And NO NO NO. Zealot is not meant to be the one and only strong or even strongest MELEE class.
The Zealot is the class with the strongest abilitys of SURVIVING, that gets stronger under pressure.
If there would be any class that by design could be called the strongest melee focused class, than that would be the Ogryn. Because the Ogryn is the one class that gets forced to relay on his melee tools way more than the Zealot. The Zealot can choose from so many accurate range weapons, while the Ogryn has an arsenal of range weapons that take way to much time to be ready to fire. And when they fire, they are mostly inaccurate. If you want to do a long range headshot as an Ogryn, you either have to spend way to much ammo, or do mediocre dmg. The direct hit of the Rumbler grenade is the closest thing the Ogryn could call an accurate range weapon option.

And what would happen if all the things some Zealot mains demand to be nerfed on the Veteran class? Lets say FS would read all the ‘‘nerf X on Vet’’ and just do that.
The result would not be as some of you think. Your Zealot would not feel more powerful. You would not have a stronger feeling of joy in your melee focused fights. No, you would experience a drastically change in the ratio of successful mission completion, when paired with Veteran players.

And the next thing that would happen would be that all of a sudden you would see treads pop up, where the same people that called for nerfs on the Veteran class, view the Ogryn melee as to strong. And then when that class would get nerfed they would move over to the last class in their way to view them self as playing the STRONGEST.

Just stop trying to take a dump on your neighbors grass, to make your own grass look greener!


Ranged combat with Vet, the ranged enemy nerfs, and all his Damage reduction, amp, and suppression immunity is literally a point n click game.
Hitting a key to enter godmode, isn’t exactly…Fun to play, or play with.
I want my feeling of challenge :joy:

Point in case there:
Brae is def not your average Vet. But facing so many guns, he was never threatened once. Kept ult all the way, and toughness never dipped bellow 80%, even when he was ambushed in the back by two gunners. Who else in the game can do that?
And still have the powercrutch to destroy anything CQC
Man, what you need to shoot is even highlighted :rofl:

Ifyou play well, you don’t need health regen.
If you take health regen, you pass on the BUGGED anti stun perk. So you’ll get shot n stun n repeat.
Knowing when to trigger it is a thing, but it’s just slightly better than VT2 Zeal getting smacked at the beginning of a game.

My story as Zealot dancing around, is coraling enemies to maximise cleave. But then a Vet just shoots through it from wherever he is sitting.
Only high mobility weapons right now can effectively dance, but there’s a catch (unless you go Heavy x2 broken blessings)
Yep. Fun.

YOu need to RUN to every enemy. Vet clicks that threat out of existence.

Solutions that other games use are:
-Range protection bubble
-Teleporting enemies
-Limited resources (ammunition)
-“OffScreen Threats” (mortar, nades, etc)

What’s the point to melee at the moment?
Too many range options. Too many resources. Ranged classes have ranged abuse through increased/unlimited capacity, more damage, more utility around said damage.

To me, this just looks like V1.0 of Vermintide 2, when Volley Crossbow would clean up everything alike.

I agree with most if not everything you said though.
Slide meta = carpal tunnel (warframe syndrome?)

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The Psychers got some major love last night, particularly with what I’m deeming to be the Psycher Power Sword ™ (i.e., Illisi Mk V Blaze Force Sword):

It is a thing of beauty! Me and DaBois ® were runnin’ damnation last night, and between the PPS and head yogurt supreme build with an extra dollop of Void Staff, it was a beautiful thing!

Anyway, I don’t think the answer is to nerf the vet, and buffing other classes that have historically gotten the least love (i.e., Psycher) is the right move IMHO.

The other weapons are kinda meh, but they did get one right ;). I’d love to see a power sword for the zealot but haven’t found a viable replacement for knife bleed build supremacy yet…

The new Ogryn clubs are lack luster, the OG club is much better overall, and the Heavier stubber doesn’t penetrate super armor - was hoping for an Outcast Engineer-like armor piercing round (i.e. Ogryn Bolter) but no such luck - maybe when the Gun Lugger is released, he’ll have a talent that does that…we’ll see!

All in all, I’m still very happy to with the improvements, and enjoy each of my level 30s, and have since leveling them all up way back in November.

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You nailed it here, its the waystalker swiftbow tanking in melee with it cuz regen.
Bounty hunter deleting everything on the screen with volley
Or wobbler Pyro with perma ult.

DT has a long way to go to make melee ACUTALLY viable = for brainlets, this doesnt mean melee is bad it is just hillariously suboptimal.
There are several ranged weapon combos that ensure you need your melee weapon 5% of the time max.

Buffing makes everyone happy.
But buffing means powercreep
See Diablo 3.

I’m ok with every weapon dealing a bazillion damage. But something will always be overtuned/overbalanced/Meta.
Not matter how many Tiers of Inferno we play Darktide on.

Yeah Psyker needed buffs, but he’s got quite a few under his belt now.
Is he fun because he is overtuned, or because his inherent mechanics are?
Imo, qwell and BB aren’t… very satisfying.

Agreed. Though, I do feel like Zealot is more common overall (I’ve stopped playing my Zealot even though he was my first main simply because I got sick of triple+ Zealot teams).

Having said that though, the class clump bug is either real or the change they said they made to prefer mixed teams isn’t working properly. I have only anecdotal evidence but it’s particularly noticeable with Psyker and Ogryn. I’d often see one of them missing completely from multiple games only to swap and suddenly get triple+ squad comps of that class.

I don’t mind doubles too much but triple of a class is annoying and I’d even volunteer in the lobby to swap classes if the game would let me.


Is he fun because he is overtuned, or because his inherent mechanics are?
Imo, qwell and BB aren’t… very satisfying.

I don’t feel that the class is over-tuned, I think this is just right. The inherent mechanics have always been fun (for me), but I felt they lacked a lot of responsiveness and mobility. This became more apparent at higher difficulties and with additional modifiers when there’s lots of elites and specials in play, mixed in with relentless hordes.

Post-buff, I still have to do my part, but I don’t feel as though I have to work harder on this class than I would on any of my others.

Regarding quell, I’m used to the overheat management from years of playing VT2/Sienna, so I don’t mind it so much, and allows ammo to ago around to the test of the team.

Brain Burst, on the other hand, has always made me giggle. It’s like living out my Scanners fantasies every time I go on a mission lol…

Or that old Kids in the Hall skit…


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If you take the health regen feat, you can play better.
You can do a shitton of aggressive plays that you otherwise could not do.
It allows you to be a much better zealot and perform so much better than zealots that do not use it.
Additionally, it enables you to leave more med station charges for your teammates.

But apparently (based on forum as well as in mission experience) most zealots do not have a clue how to play their class, and have even less of a clue, how strong their class actuallyis, if played well.

Most people seem to be pretty low on their skill, but it becomes especially apparent with zealots and ogryn, because these classes are absolutely nuts if played well and aggressively.
Instead, most people seem to play them defensively, chilling behind their teammates and whipping out their gun or flamethrower.
They leave the frontline (their place to be) open for the psykers and veterans to handle (which cripples their potential use for the team).


pls stop sayin psycher it hurts :sob:

Going by lore, power swords should be OP.