The Overrepresentation of Sharpshooters

Less ammo hungry than you think, with the power increase comes extra cleave, so you get extra value for evry shot, if you are able to get a 70% + t5 pinning fire and + 25% unarmoured wich is very doable you are able to oneshot a groaner, 2 shot a poxwalker and have a cleave of 2.3 at max stacks.
Very viable build for veteran other than zealot.

oh yeah my bad, I meant bonus to infested***

according to the achievsaround 5% have done one mission of each type on heresy, i suspect the amount playing damnation is a fraction of apercent, these forums do not give a very balanced view of whats going on

yes thats the point!

they just have a different design goal, there shouldnt be one weapon so strong it trivialises even the hardest content and making it so every weapon is just as broken and overpoweered wouldnt help that view rather it would ruin the game beyond any semblence of point left to play it

huff on guys.

Don’t you do it fat shark lol

btw if this is true

Then do you think making people on average weaker is a good thing?

Im not 100% against balance… imo bolter flamer and power sword are all pretty op. What im trying to say is there are way more weak broken or just useless weapons and blessings that need to be fixed buffed etc first

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That statistic taken in isolation paints an extremely innacurate picture. It counts that out of every person who so much as starts the game once. It doesn’t give any real indication whatsoever on what % of the currently active player base plays X difficulty. Only 10% of players have levelled 2 classes to 30. So I guess I could be similarly liberal with statistics and conclude that half of all players that bothered to level 2 classes have beaten all missions on Heresy. 29% of the player base have completed the story on a character (from memory happens when you reach level 30). So if we compare that statistic roughly a sixth of people who have bothered to fully level 1 character have completed all maps on Heresy. But even then that doesn’t account for how many people may have levelled to 30 then never even attempted Heresy before leaving the game for any number of reasons.

All together I don’t think we can really paint a very accurate picture of where the overall difficulty is at with steam stats. It is data I would absolutely love to have and discuss, but please lets not pretend that that all missions type heresy achievement honestly says only 5% of players can do Heresy decently in a game that has lost like, what, 90%+ of its players since launch? It feels either disingenous or just wantom abuse of statistics.

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wouldnt say one has anything to do with the other, the difficulties are there to offer a selection of challenges for us to pick the one we want, my personal opinion is the game is balanced around heresy and thats where FS expects the vast majority of people to play.

should people be weaker ? depnds on the context, i think its quite clear i believe the PS is overtuned and the path i think would best correct it is to nerf the stuffing out of it.

for me balance is the alpha and omega it is the long term viability of the game.
broken weapons need fixing we agree there , i would say the problem overpowered weapons need nerfing first , there actively damaging the game, the weak brocken ones (and im struggling to think of any id put in that bracket) are mearly limiting the content , which does need fixing but id rate as less critical

eh? that is the point of statistics, to promote a data set that corroborates your point of view all stats ever tell you is the agenda of the one supplying them.

fully agree, ofcourse i wasnt trying to , all i was doing was the minimal work to debunk the idea that everyone was playing damnation , it wasnt thesis on the games demographics. just one achieve stat plucked off the sheet.

I fully agree with this. Buffing/rebalancing other melee and ranged weapons to make them more powerful (and therefore fun to play) would be a great first step to entice players to step away from the so-called OP stuff that the vocal minority here on the forums and on reddit like to complain about.

I get how people like to complain about things being OP and overtuned, but IMO most alternatives aren’t very fun and only work well with specific Perk and Blessings combinations.

With the awful gear lottery in this game, is it really that surprising that many players would choose the weapons that are powerful and fun to use out of the box, instead of having to gamble for a good (for example) Autogun or Catachan Sword?

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Imagine a game where all weapons are balanced and a latrine shovel is just as good as a power sword…

Master crafter latrine shovel.

Heir loom of the chapter latrine shovel.

Imagine this guy The Armouring of a Space Marine - YouTube after all the gearing up process grabbing a latrine shovel heh, also reminds of why I thought bolters just shouldn’t be in this game.

If they balance the weapons its going to be a bit ridiculous :slight_smile:

btw he’s got a scope on his gun someone tell him its not cod.

Thunder hammer
Shovels
All chain weapons
All recon lasguns
(list not full, these are just from my personal experimenation and research of other peoples work)
And any other melee weapons with hard locked amount of targets they dmg - irrespectively of cleave.
These weapons are worse in average scenarios AND/OR niches they were designed to fill.
All of these weapons are HARD overperformed by other weapons EVEN with Godlike blessings.
And above all of these rest 3 weapons

  1. Flamer 2. Power Sword 3. Autopistol 4.Bolter*
    Flamer needs no blessings really to remove extreme amounts of threat
    Power sword without blessings is the best melee weapon in the game, and with godlike blessings stays so.
    Autopistol overall doesnt belong here EXCEPT that one pinning fire-blaze away combo with psyker or vet.
    Bolter isnt even remotely on the same level as power sword HOWEVER it does invalidate guns like hellbore for veteran, since it outdamages them and out efficiencies them. Which should be THE domain of the Hellbores - single shot murder

Not really, I think Hellbore is a more versatile than Bolter in a lot of situation tbh.

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Ehh not really?

The problem is you are comparing a laser battle rifle to a man portable light anti tank weapon.

Efficiency wise i would take the hellbore over it just because the hellbore can take on lighter targets without as much ammo wastage while also still maintaining a high damage. The uncharged on some of them is often a little under the 12 and the charged is over it.

The only reason i don’t really like the hellbore is less of an overall damage efficiency thing and more because the sights are ass and i find it hard to aim a lot of times. It’s got some good blessings as far as chained hits reducing charge and other stuff and i would use them far more often if the sights wern’t so awful. Give them a scope and i would probably never put it down.

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I HIGHLY recommend corsshair mod, you can just add a small dot while you are ADSing and so its much better to aim with

unlikely, steam archivements depict all people who played the game at some point, we lost 100k players
if every single player who still plays the game was in damnation it still would show “5% of of players archived this”.
so trying to quantify based on Achievements is impossible at this point
my guess is that the actual damnation player-base is around 10%-30% with the people who exclusively play damnation being around a third of that.

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The ult giving straight up 50% ranged damage isn’t exactly skill expression.
What it translates to, is that enemies now die to bodyshots instead of headshots, 1 shot instead of 2, etc.
Combined with some blessings it becomes quite disgusting.

In Vermintide, the lack of ammo, as well as blessing, meant that players would naturally aim for heads, increasing skill ceiling

What if the Vet Ult (sharpshooter’s focus?), increased headshot damage, in a way that if the player lands those headshots, he has more damage potential than as if he was just spray n praying with bodyshots?

TLDR:
Change the boost from 50% damage to 100% headshot damage.

The ult gives so many other advantages that it too easily becomes a “press F to become the doomslayer” button

Only problem with that idea is that it kinda biases the bonus towards certain guns and away from others. A brauto just isn’t something you should going for headshots with the vast majority of the time. Last I checked autopistol actually does less damage on head shot than body shot on some armour types, and of course that’s another gun where you simply SHOULD be aiming centre of mass most of the time.

The ult is definitely strong but I’d rather address its uptime first then see where it stands from there. You could for instance make it not start cooling down until one ult’s worth duration expires, so it’s not quite as likely it will be entirely recharged by the time you stop chaining duration refreshes. Heck you could give all duration refreshes diminishing returns the more you chain them without leaving then re-entering Ult. I’d much rather that sort of stuff be fiddled with first over the damage bonus, which currently at least lends itself equally well to any gun you prefer to use.

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This discussion reminds me of the moonfire bow, another crutch that weak players termed ‘fun’ rather than trying to learn the game.

We could settle this easily - give power sword to all classes, then watch the results.

Alternatively, disable the power sword for a few weeks and watch a biunch of flat-footed vet players scurry for easier difficulties.

What would really happen - Power sword nerf suddenly everyone is using combat axe and the zealots and ogryns get to hit more trash mobs each run. Then they stop complaining on the forum.

lol its the power sword that makes vet look flat footed in melee. You sacrifice that movement for damage and its a fair exchange. Give them an axe and they can dance just like everyone else. Its not hard.

Is it just me, or are veterans actually underrepresented lately?

Past 1-2 weeks it seems like veteran is BY FAR the rarest class i see.
Maybe one every 4 matches or so.
3 psykers, 3 zealots or 3 ogryn was pretty common though.

Edit:
Now that i hopped on to play a few rounds as a veteran myself, i got two matchups with 2 other vets…
Is the matchmaker just incredibly borked and trying to have sincle class matches as often as possible?

It really feels like it TBH.

This the first person shooter to Vermintide, what else would you expect?

Stop being so sweaty and maybe help people so everyone isn’t constant noobs.