This topic was feedback on lacking information, and a request (which is a huge difference from a demand) to provide some vital info so newbies (not noobs, mind you) get a chance to learn things before making mistakes. And you then come in here, take the extremely generalized example to avoid wall of text in my OP and make it your mission to nit-pick everything.
Im gonna ask you this again, as clear as possible:
Do you think that giving new players more fleshed out information about vital game mechanics is a bad thing?
I don’t think there’s a lack of information. The game yells at you when you actually waste healing, meaning you overheal. What you’re complaining about (people using healing when not wounded at all) mattered in Vermintide 1 and doesn’t really matter in V2. The information you want to give people isn’t really relevant. And you didn’t lose that fight in the Nest due to misuse of heals.
Again, you failed to answer a simple question. You are avoiding it. And then again questioning my ability to play the game, without any evidence pointing that way. Im done trying, even if I would convince you at some point, I wouldnt gain anything of value.
I answered your question dude. The information players need (Don’t overheal) is already in the game. What you think is “vital” (Don’t heal until you are wounded) is NOT in fact vital. It was good advice in V1, not in V2.
You lost into the Nest and tried to blame it on your teammates not using med kits however you think they should be used. That’s evidence that your skill isn’t that up there.
Well, it most certainly is objectively worse at item synergy and health usage than the first game ofc. Pray that there will be a mod to remedy this case
It can get annoying. But quite often it’s because some players are just bad and selfish. I was playing with an elf, who got like 1500 damage taken, took every healing supply she found and used it right away, even when above 70% health. Wasn’t the only example…
i thought this was intrinsically part of learning to play the game at higher levels.
i feel that this game should teach you the basics (movement, attacking, objectives) which the prologue does wonderfully.
the rest should be up to the player to learn and adapt, and not be hand-held.
i would peg this issue as a L2P one, along with these others below, for example:
block reviving
bomb/ability staggering bosses
don’t get surrounded
armor penetration weapons
friendly fire on champ and legend
don’t advance when there’s a boss or horde about
listening to audio cues can reveal special locations and movement
etc etc
so yea, as far as this debate goes… how far should the game instruct player’s playstyle? I think it’s in a good place in my humble opinion. It encourages experimentation and learning growth by trial and error.
Hm when playing legend and you’re not a tank character I always advice people to heal when they are at 50% hp. On legend things can go haywire in seconds realy and if you’re walking around being tough at 20% hp you are actualy putting the team at risk imho.
Now and then you encounter a V1 veteran or something who’s stuck in his ways and rules he thinks are the absolute truth on how the game should be played. And they refuse to heal untill they are in grey state and tend to go ballistic when someone in their mind at least wastes’ a healpot. These players often end up dead leaving a healpot on the ground for some reason… prolly because they are so “gud”. They need to be revived hurting the team more then taking that healpot imo. And when we are able to res him he actualy needs more healing to get him to a somewhat saver HP level. Luckely tho’ there seems to be a LOT of heals lying around even on legend. I just find if baffeling that there are players out there that think they can quantify all the variables, and have come up with some arbitrary rules that every player “should” ( I hate that word somehow) live by. I mean, often these are the same people that start telling you, you are playing the wrong class you have the wrong weapon etc and it’s always someone else’s fault when things go bad or when they go down. And yes a waystalker with selfheal taking a healpot at 80% is wasting health and being selfish. and prioritising healing the grim carriers ( hopefully tanks) is ofcourse the the smarter thing to do. But yeh I just whish some players would get their head out of their arse and stop criticising and blaming others all the time. You are ruining ppls gamexperience a lot more than someone drinking a healpot too many or something . Just my honest opinion tho’.
Oh for the ppl who are going to disregard everything I say or that I must be some kind of newb, I have 288 hours in V2 not including the beta, and I run on champ and legend with a slayer ( you know the class that has no utillity at all according to some of these v2 “gud” players and leave the party as soon as they see me entering) and do just fine, even in pubs but not very often
I would be fine with all of this. But as it is, the game teaches very bad behaviour regarding healing supplies in recruit and veteran. Combine an abundance of healing with people’s common desire to make use of everything, and bad habits are born. People will not un-learn something as fast as they learn it, claim its the only and best way to make use of healing supplies because that is all they knew in the lower difficulties. Im not denying people will eventually learn, but until then, they will stick to bad habits. And the nature of quick-play together with the vast influx of new people that never played vt1 or even l4d means that I meet quite alot of people still exercising behaviour that was appropiate in rec/vet, but detrimental in champ/leg.
The characters even say it, its a waste of healing supplies. Just point it out if someone wastes heals and they will keep an eye on it. Didnt see much of a problem here, especially when 3 tomes are held, only 1 has a heal and if this person doesnt get the importance of it, then its not the games fault.
Also there is no lifesteal on weapons as in V1, which made it viable to run around with 1hp since you healed up with the next horde. Not saying its good to heal at low hp, only that it is situational, you wipe at legend when players get out of action through specials or being downed by dmg, healing up makes you vulnerable to specials only in a good team.
procing occasional bloodlust & regrowth is not LIFESTEAL. Omfg, what a head up ass thing to say. Furthermore, what you said about it somehow being viable to run around in the first game with 1hp just because you have slight chances to proc 5-10 hp back every 4-5 engagments is just BS. You clearly never played cata and just make up stories as you go.
what an ignorant post. On cata i healed a ton per horde with every character. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but there were situations where i healed 50% per horde. Especially with 2 grims each heal proc was nice, with cleave weapons you did get out of risk in no time.
Oh i even remember the good old wizards tower, room everyone sees differently. Break chain, stand on top of the hill, as ranged you spammed your boltstaff / bow and were full hp. I remember clearly how i didnt even care if venting did any dmg at all, it was full hp before the horde ended 100%. I picked this example because you wouldnt lose much hp fighting, which i guess is the difference between us.
I loved 2h hammer, normally didnt take any dmg in hordes and healed a LOT.
I dont understand how you could be upset that I called bloodlust / regrowth lifesteal, it was by far the best and was added on EACH weapon.
Hey guys… Sorry if this is a stupid question… But surely being at any health where you don’t get fully healed when using an item is the same? Ie you have fully utilised the healing potential of the item?
Why is it better to heal out of grey than postpone entering the grey?
On higher difficulties you die from few scratches anyway. Getting healed usually makes a difference for 1-2 hits maybe and i noticed that you don’t get hit at all or you get hit a bunch and rarely inbetween if you are playing well and paying attention. Reseting grey health is way more important.
There are some exceptions to that obviously and you should adapt to the situation but in general i being more frugal with the health is better.
Generally the thought behind it is that since you don’t die when you go down, and get revived with temporary health, that’s almost a heal in itself. You can effectively make your heals last a lot longer, possibly until you find even more heals down the road.
There are absolutely situations where (usually person holding the grim) prefers to be topped off rather than risk going down at all, like before a scripted encounter with a mini boss or boss.
Regain grey health which is partially kept when your are healed - thus providing an increased healing affect
Absorb more damage whilst downed which would help your team and means your health has been used to absorb more damage than if you had remained green
But that these benefits are offset by the risk of your whole team being downed at the same time (losing the scenario) which is why it’s always a good idea to have some people on good and other people on poor health.
Yeah that’s pretty much the idea. I don’t think of being downed as a damage sponge situation though. Generally you just want to get someone up as fast as possible.
In Vermintide 1, your health items would turn your gray health into green (plus the healing amount), but in V2, it overwrites the gray health. So this method is less effective in V2, but still has merit in coordinated team-play.
Obviously it’s something you only want to do with people who feel confident operating at low health.
you have bonus health while laying down, increased health pool to tank a few hits, let someone sit there and wait until a storm disappears instead of reviving and risk they get sucked in. The keywords here are
No, yet again that correlation =/= causation. The way it actually works in V1 made sense. I love how you omitted the part where you have to sustain health procs whilst not taking hits in the first game just to get back in the red to do it that way. Just an objective fact that with certain talents and natural bond it lessens the need for health conservation and item synergy
I’m not sure what exactly you’re talking about, or why you’re so salty, but I think we’re talking about two different things.
In V1, if you go down and get revived, you have 50% gray health. If you then chug a health potion, you go to 100% green health, which is more than you would be at if you used the potion at low HP instead of going down first. That no longer happens in V2. That’s all I was saying.
procing occasional bloodlust & regrowth is not LIFESTEAL. Omfg, what a head up ass thing to say. Furthermore, what you said about it somehow being viable to run around in the first game with 1hp just because you have slight chances to proc 5-10 hp back every 4-5 engagments is just BS. You clearly never played cata and just make up stories as you go.