The current design of the ammo boxes is unintuitive. It operates on charges, rather than an ammo being available. This means that you can deplete it either by four players filling up their ammo supply entirely, or one player firing one shot, using a charge, and repeating that process four times (or anything in between of course).
This causes problems in runs when players stand next to a box and double dip into it several times during a fight quickly depleting it. I don’t blame a single player who does this as the current design unintuitive and there is no reason for anyone to expect that the charge system is how the boxes work. Currently, the correct way to use the boxes would be to let it stand there until you are really low on ammo and then use it, but if you do that now it can just be gone.
I have two suggested solutions
Have the ammo box have a certain number of percentage points. If you want it to completely fill up four people that would be 400%, but it could absolutely be lower for balance reasons or difficulty level. When someone uses the charge they top up but only remove the number of percentage points they need. So if I’m at 40% capacity, I remove 60% and the box has 340% left.
Another way would be to just have it work like the medpack and restock your munitions in clicks.
Both of these methods I believe are superior and more intuitive than what we have now.
No op is right. It is unintuitive. When i started the game i thought it had a certain amount of ammo just like the way he mentioned and i was confused when it went away when filling up just a few bullets.
It would definitely make it easier to understand. You take what you need, that amount disappears from the box. Simple and logical. The way it works now, you take what you need, then the game decides to remove an arbitrary remainder of ammunition from existence. It’s just another layer of micromanagement that adds nothing, mechanically nor thematically. Having boxes always provide a fixed amount of standardised ammo units would be much more consistent than arbitrary charges that can provide anywhere from 1 to 1000 ammo.
There is something called having a workers etiquette, there is an identical scenario in Deep Rock Galactic with its supply pods. DRG players there however, myself included see it as taboo if you double dip and take more supply then what you need because resources on Hoxxes-IV is very limited and Double Dipping puts a fellow miner at a disadvantage, my best suggestion is to follow the dwarves example and encourage each other to not Double Dip.
Each person takes one charge (just like a 4 charge med station).
Doesnt get easier to understand than that
The suggested change makes it more convoluted, confusing and is just pointless.
And then you have no idea how much is left on it, as soon as anyone uses it.
Maybe you proceed, let your teammates wait so you can run back to fill up some more ammo at the thing and you only get 1 ammo because it was almost empty.
No need to waste dev time on pointless changes.
You find it to be NOT intuitive, when it has charges like a med station (although they are not displayed) and each charge works just like a regular ammo pickup?
It refills a certain amount of your max ammo (100% in this case) and is consumed on use. Just like ammo pickups.
You guys make this ammo case situation seem like a huge problem, when it is not.
It is rare enough that anyone runs completely out of ammo already.
I have never seen it happen more than once in a single mission (and even that happens maybe once in 20 missions).
If you use the normal ammo pickups intelligently, nobody completely wastes all their ammo, and if you even have just one ammo crate, there is no ammo problem throughout the entire mission.
Making the ammo box work like a medpack would absolutely suck. It would have only downsides.
Making the box have 400% ammo and only losing % depending on how much ammo it restores is also pointless, because it makes it harder to track how much ammo is in there and since usually, the thing is dropped, everyone takes a charge and you move on with the mission, having anything different than we have now, would not really provide a benefit.
Next thing, people ask for the med station to have % instead of charges, or for regular ammo pickups to also remain with a leftover % if they would overfill someones ammo reserve.
I love how people assume that everyone takes one charge.
The tactical advantage of having 4 charges is actually immense. Got a staff psyker on the team? Great, you can refill before entering a room, go wild and then double down before moving to the next area.
Totally agree. Same goes for Healing Stations. If i heal up 1 lost health bar before the encounter and the rest of the squad does not use it, i will not take another charge of it after the fight. The thing has 4 Loads at max and we are 4 Players. 1 for each.
Same goes for Healing stations with less then 4 loads. The one with the most HP left holds back for the benefit of the team. Ammo Boxes, Pickups etc. Always think what is the best for the team.
That is what the Codex Darktidius demands.
You made a statement countering the OP where you condescendingly just wrote how it is suppose to work while the OP clearly explained that he/she knows how it works at the moment and what is the “correct way to use the boxes”.
When I started playing I immediately knew exactly how the med station worked because it is intuitive. No need for experimenting, reading tutorials or whatnot. I was sure about how ammo packs work only after roughly, leveling one character to lvl 30 (used lasgun with a Zealot).
I was also the one who was"double-dipping" these ammo packs simply because I didn’t understand how they worked when I started playing.
I agree that it is not in the top 100 issues with the game, though.
I was not condescending.
I just put it in very simple terms, because that is how simple it is.
It being so simple, makes it quite intuitive.
Good luck figuring out exactly how it works, with the two alternatives suggested by OP. Those alternatives are not intuitive at all.
The ammo box refills 100% ammo upon use. That is something you notice pretty much right away.
Understanding that it simply has 4 charges should take maybe 1-3 deploys of an ammo box (unless a staff user is in the party), where you pay attention to what happens and people simply use it intuitively.
At least for me, the intuitive way to use a deployable ammo thing that can be accessed by everyone, is:
deploy when at least one player is nearly out of ammo (which should pretty much never happen while all others are still nearly full), or when the number of available items exceeds the number of items that can be carried
player with lowest ammo uses it
repeat 2. until everyone is full, or the deployable disappears
if something is left over, potentially return when not full anymore
„Everyone full“ and „deployable disappears“ will happen in the same moment every time (unless a staff user is in the party).
That tells you right away, how the box works (i am not opposed to adding a visual for the number of charges on the box though).
If you double dip (very likely on 2nd use, you did not restore a lot of ammo), get back to 100% ammo and the box disappears, it should become quite obvious that the box works on „number of uses“ and not on „amount of ammo restored“.
It is quite unlikely that the box had the exact amount of ammo left, that you needed to be full.
Sometimes Med-stations aren’t even guaranteed to have the full 4 charges for use so its important to strategize who needs the health more, is it the Ogryn with less then half his health remaining that has max health that is equal to 3 guardsmen or should it be used to clean up someone else’s 3 wounds of corruption damage. In such a case you pretty much have to evaluate your own commitment to the team, for the Ogryn the question could effectively be: “will you use this health to effectively protect your allies who’s at deaths door til you get to the next station or should you let them clear their corruption and view yourself going down as a way to get most of your health back?”
I would consider it an “Uplifting Primer”, something of which is standard issue to the guardsmen, you pretty much have to uphold its provided guidelines and advice or you’ll suffer the consequences of the nearest Commissar, which often is a .75 caliber shell to the head. (In our case within Darktide, a vote to kick).
A Codex is more a Space Marine thing and they’re guidelines that they follow within the best of their abilities, not a holy book. Regardless in how that prick Leandros claim it to be.
Except it’s not. We constantly run into this problem in runs, and as I said, I don’t blame the users at all. It is unintuitive that the same box either contains four bullets or hundreds or even thousands. While my suggestions would not let anyone know exactly when a box would go away (the current system does not do that either) it would let everyone know that they can safely restore 100% ammo out of a box. This is more intuitive than the system we have now, but I’ll grant that it is subjective.
At the very least, they should do what med stations do, or what the ammo stations in DRG do, and clearly mark how many charges are left.
I will also concede that this is not at the top of anyone’s list, but some things are easier to fix than others and small fixes can and often do get pushed in so they are still worth bringing up.
For not observing and understanding a simple thing?
Again, you think it is unintuitive, that something:
works on number of uses
can be used when ever the effect would be > 0 (i.e. hp not full, ammo not full)
does the same thing every time (restores x % or x amount, unless the missing amount is < x)
You know what else works in just the same „unintuitive“ way?
regular ammo pickups in darktide
medicae stations in darktide
healing items and ammo pickups in vermintide 2
healing pots or pretty much any consumable in any other game i can think of
The way it works is the most simple an intuitive it can be. Paying attention allows you to find out exactly what it does within a few uses.
Yet some people go through the mental gymnastics to think of something complex that would be near impossible to figure out just by using it, without being explained how it works, and claiming that it would be much more intuitive.
Do you know exactly, how a medipack in darktide works?
Probably not. And the reason might be, that it seems to work just the way OP suggested the ammo box should work.