The design of ammo boxes is unintuitive

Each person takes one charge (just like a 4 charge med station).
Done.
Doesnt get easier to understand than that

The suggested change makes it more convoluted, confusing and is just pointless.
And then you have no idea how much is left on it, as soon as anyone uses it.
Maybe you proceed, let your teammates wait so you can run back to fill up some more ammo at the thing and you only get 1 ammo because it was almost empty.

No need to waste dev time on pointless changes.

You find it to be NOT intuitive, when it has charges like a med station (although they are not displayed) and each charge works just like a regular ammo pickup?
It refills a certain amount of your max ammo (100% in this case) and is consumed on use. Just like ammo pickups.

You guys make this ammo case situation seem like a huge problem, when it is not.

It is rare enough that anyone runs completely out of ammo already.
I have never seen it happen more than once in a single mission (and even that happens maybe once in 20 missions).
If you use the normal ammo pickups intelligently, nobody completely wastes all their ammo, and if you even have just one ammo crate, there is no ammo problem throughout the entire mission.

Making the ammo box work like a medpack would absolutely suck. It would have only downsides.

Making the box have 400% ammo and only losing % depending on how much ammo it restores is also pointless, because it makes it harder to track how much ammo is in there and since usually, the thing is dropped, everyone takes a charge and you move on with the mission, having anything different than we have now, would not really provide a benefit.

Next thing, people ask for the med station to have % instead of charges, or for regular ammo pickups to also remain with a leftover % if they would overfill someones ammo reserve.

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I love how people assume that everyone takes one charge.

The tactical advantage of having 4 charges is actually immense. Got a staff psyker on the team? Great, you can refill before entering a room, go wild and then double down before moving to the next area.

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Wrong

It’s more like:

  • 4 uses for ANY person (intended?)

Just adding a clear indicator about the number of charges (like with medicae stations) would fix this.

It’s not a huge problem, but just one of 100s of QoL changes I am not even writing about until major issues are solved.

There should definitely be some sort of visual indicator about the fact that it’s charge based.

Totally agree. Same goes for Healing Stations. If i heal up 1 lost health bar before the encounter and the rest of the squad does not use it, i will not take another charge of it after the fight. The thing has 4 Loads at max and we are 4 Players. 1 for each.

Same goes for Healing stations with less then 4 loads. The one with the most HP left holds back for the benefit of the team. Ammo Boxes, Pickups etc. Always think what is the best for the team.
That is what the Codex Darktidius demands.

4 people
4 charges
it is intended to be used as one charge per person

Did you really have to reply to say that i am wrong, when you just chose to somehow interpret my (quite clear) statement in a way that makes it incorrect?

Yes, and this entire thread is about the fact that this INTENTION is not what we necessarily see in the game.
Why?
Because: The design of ammo boxes is unintuitive

You made a statement countering the OP where you condescendingly just wrote how it is suppose to work while the OP clearly explained that he/she knows how it works at the moment and what is the “correct way to use the boxes”.

When I started playing I immediately knew exactly how the med station worked because it is intuitive. No need for experimenting, reading tutorials or whatnot. I was sure about how ammo packs work only after roughly, leveling one character to lvl 30 (used lasgun with a Zealot).

I was also the one who was"double-dipping" these ammo packs simply because I didn’t understand how they worked when I started playing.
I agree that it is not in the top 100 issues with the game, though.

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I was not condescending.
I just put it in very simple terms, because that is how simple it is.
It being so simple, makes it quite intuitive.

Good luck figuring out exactly how it works, with the two alternatives suggested by OP. Those alternatives are not intuitive at all.

The ammo box refills 100% ammo upon use. That is something you notice pretty much right away.
Understanding that it simply has 4 charges should take maybe 1-3 deploys of an ammo box (unless a staff user is in the party), where you pay attention to what happens and people simply use it intuitively.

At least for me, the intuitive way to use a deployable ammo thing that can be accessed by everyone, is:

    1. deploy when at least one player is nearly out of ammo (which should pretty much never happen while all others are still nearly full), or when the number of available items exceeds the number of items that can be carried
    1. player with lowest ammo uses it
    1. repeat 2. until everyone is full, or the deployable disappears
    1. if something is left over, potentially return when not full anymore

„Everyone full“ and „deployable disappears“ will happen in the same moment every time (unless a staff user is in the party).
That tells you right away, how the box works (i am not opposed to adding a visual for the number of charges on the box though).

If you double dip (very likely on 2nd use, you did not restore a lot of ammo), get back to 100% ammo and the box disappears, it should become quite obvious that the box works on „number of uses“ and not on „amount of ammo restored“.
It is quite unlikely that the box had the exact amount of ammo left, that you needed to be full.

Sometimes Med-stations aren’t even guaranteed to have the full 4 charges for use so its important to strategize who needs the health more, is it the Ogryn with less then half his health remaining that has max health that is equal to 3 guardsmen or should it be used to clean up someone else’s 3 wounds of corruption damage. In such a case you pretty much have to evaluate your own commitment to the team, for the Ogryn the question could effectively be: “will you use this health to effectively protect your allies who’s at deaths door til you get to the next station or should you let them clear their corruption and view yourself going down as a way to get most of your health back?”

Lion-EL-Gubson That is what the Codex Darktidius demands.

I would consider it an “Uplifting Primer”, something of which is standard issue to the guardsmen, you pretty much have to uphold its provided guidelines and advice or you’ll suffer the consequences of the nearest Commissar, which often is a .75 caliber shell to the head. (In our case within Darktide, a vote to kick).

A Codex is more a Space Marine thing and they’re guidelines that they follow within the best of their abilities, not a holy book. Regardless in how that prick Leandros claim it to be.

Except it’s not. We constantly run into this problem in runs, and as I said, I don’t blame the users at all. It is unintuitive that the same box either contains four bullets or hundreds or even thousands. While my suggestions would not let anyone know exactly when a box would go away (the current system does not do that either) it would let everyone know that they can safely restore 100% ammo out of a box. This is more intuitive than the system we have now, but I’ll grant that it is subjective.

At the very least, they should do what med stations do, or what the ammo stations in DRG do, and clearly mark how many charges are left.

I will also concede that this is not at the top of anyone’s list, but some things are easier to fix than others and small fixes can and often do get pushed in so they are still worth bringing up.

There is no indicator of how many charges are left in a ammo box, like there is in a medicae station. Which is unintuitive.

-Change my mind

Ive mostly played psyker so it doesnt matter as much to me, but i do think that if you try and look at it from a diff perspective then you could see how it would be unintuitive in at least this way.

For not observing and understanding a simple thing?

Again, you think it is unintuitive, that something:

  • works on number of uses
  • can be used when ever the effect would be > 0 (i.e. hp not full, ammo not full)
  • does the same thing every time (restores x % or x amount, unless the missing amount is < x)

You know what else works in just the same „unintuitive“ way?

  • regular ammo pickups in darktide
  • medicae stations in darktide
  • healing items and ammo pickups in vermintide 2
  • healing pots or pretty much any consumable in any other game i can think of

The way it works is the most simple an intuitive it can be. Paying attention allows you to find out exactly what it does within a few uses.
Yet some people go through the mental gymnastics to think of something complex that would be near impossible to figure out just by using it, without being explained how it works, and claiming that it would be much more intuitive.

Do you know exactly, how a medipack in darktide works?
Probably not. And the reason might be, that it seems to work just the way OP suggested the ammo box should work.

  1. Small ammo pickup gives small amount of ammo, big ammo pickup gives big amount of ammo
  2. Charge levels on bottom clearly show amount of charges left
  3. All healing and potions and ammo pickups are by default one-use in Vermintide 2
  4. what

I agree that the way medpacks work with them having a set amount of healing is not currently intuitive

A change should extend to Darktide medpacks too, some kind of meter showing how many charges / how much healing is left would be a good change to make things more intuitive and easily readable

I think Payday does it the same way, with health pack and ammo pack having a set number of uses

Though as I remember the packs have a way to show how many use they still have, not sure though

And in just the same way, one charge of the ammo box gives you 100% ammo. Neither of the three care if your ammo is at 99% or at 0%. They try to restore the same amount every time and if some ammo would be left over, they are gone anyway.

Correct. Which makes sense because the number of charges on a medicae station is not always identical and because medicae stations do not disappear after a certain time, so they have to be managed properly.
If you suddenly lose health in an unexpected way, you might want to go back and use the medicae station then, but ammo is far less valuable and it usually makes sense to just use the ammo box right away, when it is deployed. So everyone fills their ammo and that‘s it. No charge indicator required (although it wouldn‘t hurt).

Correct. And no matter if they restore as much health/ammo as they potentially could, their 1 charge will be consumed. Just like each use of the medicae station or the ammo box consumes one of their charges.

Not sure what you mean.
That is just how it is.

Aside from the ammo box not having a charge indicator, the medicae station, ammo box and ammo pickups work pretty much as intuitively as they can.
And the missing charge indicator only means that you have to look 1-2 extra times until you understand that the box always has 4 charges. In practice, it does not make a difference.
Making the changes as suggested by OP, would result in nobody understanding how exactly it works.

DRG solved that problem. Probably without even giving it much thought.

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Wrong.
I doesn’t always have 4 charges.
Because there is no indicator about the number of charges, you don’t know if someone took one charge or double-dipped, so you, intuitively take one charge even though you are half-full with ammo (because why not), only to realize that that was the last charge and your Vet in the team just emptied his last clip.

And this happens even though you completely know how the box works.

This. Given the compartimented visual of the box interior I don’t understand why they didn’t coded it so the ammo would progressively disapear from it with each charge taken, like a quater every time so you know if the other have already got their share or not.

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When you drop the box it always has 4 charges, it is true that you don’t see if there 1 to 4 charge left, but each box start at 4 charges