It would be one thing if i took a L and went “oh well” as I’ve done before with promising games that just never got updates. The big thing is the gameplay is great despite a lot of it’s bugged features and oddities. This is legit a game i could see myself playing for a long time if we could stop piling hostile design on top of hostile design.
Whenever Jackal makes a post it’s literally just projection, claiming everyone else is mad when they themselves spend all their time trolling the forms looking for someone to throw a dig at because they themselves are unhappy with the state of the game but brining it up would make them look like a huge tool after a month of calling anyone with a negative opinion a moron.
i went through some latest messages, some people where saying theres a silent majority of people who don’t like the crafting system, and i want to participate but idk where to start, so…
firsly, i liked the idea of blessings on weapons. i liked the fact that you do and dont have at same time ability to customize your weapon’s look and its performance balance to fit your playstyle, because if you have too much customization it leads to confusing and time consuming process of finding whats YOURS favorite, and not much weapons would provide a boring repeating play.
Yet, Fatshark made their own almost perfect formula a crapshow of grinding and wasting time on items for a long time. I was lucky that i got my fav katachan sword in ~50 hours of playing (550 hours total) when people where using only tacaxes or powerswords on vets. And now I have to grind lots of hours to get a nice new Laspistol with good stats because I see a big potential in it just as I saw it in katachan sword before the big skilltree update and I want to have fun with new things added
thank you. i really hope that one day someones post will change game or its part hardly, i really do, and thats why i joined the community. game is good, but its flaws… is disgraceful sometimes once you discover them and the fact that community hardly fights against it
The lack of just being able to play what I want and try new things in Darktide is what’s killing me. That’s why the crafting sucks to me. The crafting doesn’t suck because “I can’t get a perfect weapon” - I don’t want a perfect weapon, I want to be able to reliably be able to get something good enough that’s set up how I want so I can try new things. I want to be able to take the new shovel, and play around with specializing it as an elite killer vs a horde clearer - and blessings/perks are important to do that because of breakpoints. But I can only do that if I’m lucky enough to find 2 shovels that have 4 out of the 6+ layers of RNG line up well enough. And the more weapons get added to the pool, the less likely that is to happen.
Since I can’t get what I want to play how I want, the only real replayability I get in Darktide is the new class system (which is better than VT2’s by a mile) and…that’s it. But wait, no, it’s worse because the crafting system makes it so I don’t particularly want to do the whole rigmarole with a different character. I want to try the new Eviscerator and pistol on Zealot, but I know that my time could and has a high probability of just being wasted for trying. So I don’t bother. Is this what Fatshark actually wants? No. I doubt it, anyway.
You know what made me play close to a thousand hours in VT2? The fact that if I got bored of a weapon, I could get one of comparable quality to the previous one with little hassle (VT2’s system was also severely flawed, but despite this it provided better player agency) and try that. Then when I got bored of all the weapons, I could try a new career and see how all those weapons interract with that career. Then a new character, repeat that cycle. The agency allowed me so many different layers of replayability it’s nuts. Darktide’s class system promotes more agency, but the weapon system hamstrings it significantly and it’s just dumb that we’re still talking about this more than a year later.
God forbid that blessings/perks get nerfs changes and now my weapon might be bricked. All that time wasted rolling dice getting sht weapons, hoping I got a decent one that’s even remotely close to what I wanted, now out the window. That feels terrible. Why would anyone like that, and why would anyone at Fatshark think that this is not enough of a problem alone to figure out some kind of solution.
It just sucks man. It sucks, people who defend it don’t understand what the actual problems are, scapegoat an argument that almost no one is actually making. What I fear is that then Fatshark will look at those people and say “see, they think it’s fine, the crafting is fine” when it’s not. So keep up the good work @brosgw
Buy stuff fast enough… when I have 174 hours in the game and I have one character, ONE with the right gear to play in Damnation, on ONE build. That’s absolutely ridiculous.
This is, to my knowledge, the biggest thread in the forums and the one with most vews, I have never seen in the history of all the tide games, so many people agreeing on something like the fact that locks suck.
Yet fatshark dares to pull the “Silent Majority” argument?
Where was the silent majority when people were asking for veteran talent tree to be readjusted?
Where was the silent majority when people were asking for the cash shop to have more aquila packs?
Where was the silent majority when people were asking for flamer and power sword nerfs?
Where was the silent majority when the westfold fell?
Ok that last one may not be relevant for this thread. , point is: in all their updates, they mention how much they “listen” to player feedback and adjust things accordingly, and they have done great so far, yet they refuse to acknowledge the biggest feedback of all. @FatsharkCatfish I know you are just doing your job, which often requires managing customer dissatisfaction. You are doing great, but the silent majority argument, I don’t buy it.
Fatshark regained a TON of good will (and justifiably so) on the class rework because they admitted that the previous system was a placeholder and they gave us a very good, player centric system that gave us a ton of agency and replayability. The response to this added agency and letting us play how we want has singlehandedly brought this game from mostly negative to very positive on Steam. Why…do they seem to think this does not apply to the crafting? What’s happening here? What is the problem?
If they choose to not give crafting a similar treatment next then I dunno. I was really, desperately hoping that they would throw us a bone for the holidays. Imagine them just throwing a “happy holidays everyone, btw, we made it so you can break locks by spending 1,000 diamantine, we’ll see you in January” or whatever. Man, I’d be playing the crap out of this game throughout the holiday break, 100% and so would probably a lot of people.
as it stands, I’ve done the twins, I’ve played all the maps, and I don’t want to spend the time to gamble on the new weapons. I don’t really want to play my other characters since they all don’t have weapons I want to use right now. So I’m pretty much done for now until some other content drops or if friends want to give it a go again (which, doubtful since it’s just me and 1-2 buds now instead of the 5 post-class update)
The other frustrating part to me is it seems like FatShark really, really wants to lean in on this whole “you’re salvaging weapons from other dead units, you gotta make do with what you get”
Like, okay, I get how lore-wise that can be interesting…but holy hell is it just bad for the player and the overall experience. When the #1 complaint for your game, for an entire year has been consistent and pretty close to unanimous, you gotta change some priorities man. Lore doesn’t matter when everyone quits your game again because you’re not willing to listen.
Where has Fatshark done/said this? Did I miss a post from a CM saying there is a silent majority of players who love the crafting?
The talent rework is proof that FS is making big player-focused moves that they are refusing to telegraph. But I don’t see any evidence that they’re doubling down on, nor defending, the current crafting system.
And that makes sense for the armoury and acquisition part… but crafting is modifying what you find. So changing them, eventually and in a reasonable way makes it exactly what you want.
It was in this thread, when after patch 12 when you could also change both perks or both blessings they asked “do people STILL have an issue”? Which is more whether the numbers are out of date. Mostly it’s others on the forums that say the silent majority.
They have said they aren’t done with crafting changes and can’t say anything now so… who knows.
It does feel pretty silly to say that we’re salvaging old equipment so you gotta learn how to use what you get…and then turn around and see a tech priest with the new cutscene of how there’s a ton of them working on weapons and you’re telling my ass they can’t adjust things how I want them to? I’m officially part of the warband now, people on the ship are saying they’ve been hearing my name (which means we’re named characters now too I guess?) and you’re telling me I’m still playing with scrap sloppy seconds with baggage issues?
Oh wait, my bad, this way does exemplify the whole “find the hidden potential behind a weapon” right? …right?
(I still laugh at that because it’s such a laughably terrible line to tell us and yet someone thought it was the correct thing to say)
It is silly. I kind of like the salvaged equipment trope. It is pretty 40K, where every piece of technology is more or less archeotech, since AdMech has long forgotten how to build something new.
But nonetheless, it should not prevent us from upgrading the weapons to our likings via crafting. It makes absolute sense, our rejects purchase some EQ, bring it to Hadron and she repairs (stat increase) and modifies (perks&blessings) the gun or blade in question.
Currently she is more like a crazed baker. You bring her a cake for a glazing and you never know what you will get. Sometimes you get strawberries and cream, sometimes chocolate and sometimes just a pile of sh*t on top. No refunds!
They regained enough goodwill from me alone to (in my mind) justify not only returning after a nearly year-long hiatus, but “reward” this and the other changes by buying an Aquilla pack… Only to then realize that nothing that made me LEAVE actually changed (poor in-game player rewards and the crafting system).
I loathe that because again: we’re all pretty dang happy with the gameplay once we’re IN a mission. It’s visceral, it’s frenetic, it’s fantastic. But then we get back to the hub and remember that what we just went through, while it may be the main focus, tends to be overshadowed by nearly everything in the Morningstar; be it crafting, bounty contracts, cosmetics, etc.
Fatshark is actively diminutizing the issue by saying that they can’t trust the vocal consensus because they don’t know how it fits in with the rest of the playerbase. “We can’t act on this because of everybody who isn’t saying anything” is such wild way to offload responsibility. It’s an excuse a child would make if they got in trouble for something they did, “Mom told me not to do it, but dad didn’t tell me I can’t.”
People keep asking for new maps, which sure they help. But realistically we’ll be playing these maps hundreds, if not thousands of times. A new map doesn’t actually do that much in the grand scheme of things. This means the replay factor HAS to come in with the weapons & classes (and potentially new game modes, I love the twins being this tag team boss battle mode compared to a regular map)
They nailed the class part. It looks like they’re getting the ball rolling on modes. But without the agency of the weapons, that doesn’t have nearly the same replayability depth.
What I find annoying is Darktide has more opportunity for replayability than VT2. VT2, your ranged weapon didn’t…matter all that much, like yes of course it did, especially depending on the class, but they don’t have the same weight as they do in Darktide. Which sucks that then this is the area that has the least amount of agency/replay value. Just playing with a different melee and keeping the same ranged changes the play dramatically, and vice versa. Really playing around with different combinations, on top of each weapon having variability in its use would be HUGE in terms of replayability and making me want to come back.
But unless you want to gamble, that’s all moot. And to bring this back to some comments earlier…yes, it’s because of the potential and the love of the game that we’re sitting here complaining about it. If I didn’t love this game, nor see any potential, I’d have been gone a long, long time ago. But it’s right there. It’s literally within reach. They’re just not doing it. So yes, I’m going to complain about it.
Class replayability has added a bunch to me, since I can tweak the builds and they interact interestingly with different weapons…but I need more open crafting, more chances to tweak the weaponry, to really start enjoying stuff. I like taking things to their max potential, it’s why I gravitate to the rare ‘god rolls’ I get, because those are my best guns and feel the best to use. I mained hammer zealot because I got all the best perks lined up, I main HIGH NOON vet because I managed to get a 377 revolver with acceptable perks and blessings quickly, I main shield Ogryn and revolver psyker because those are good…etc.
I don’t feel this is what Catfish meant, and I think it’s about as uncharitable a reading as possible. Here is what she actually said:
I know they do care, and there is obviously concern around the current crafting systems, and I don’t think this is the end of the changes, but there isn’t much more information we are ready to share on this right now.
For sure there is a lot of feedback about it online, and I have tonnes of links to reddit and these forums to help strengthen my arguments- but something I am frequently reminded of along with all the feedback online it is important to take into account all the players who don’t give feedback or don’t comment, it’s especially hard to gauge their opinions on it.
So she says: FS cares and there are almost-definitely changes coming; there’s tonnes of feedback, not just in this thread, that she uses to strengthen her arguments around crafting; and she says she is reminded internally about the (objective) truth that the forums aren’t the entire playerbase.
Sounds like one person who cares, in a company of people who care, taking personal responsibility for representing the community’s crafting concerns (part of her job). She, a relatively new hire, being reminded internally that there are players beyond the forums doesn’t mean FS is ignoring or diminishing any concerns.
Catfish and FS have actual data on this stuff, in addition to the opinions we share here. And their livelihoods depend on this game succeeding. There’s no reason to believe they would, or would want to, ignore legitimate concerns.
And their silence means nothing. No more proof of that should be needed than a quick look at the talent trees and the Bounty Hunter Double Shotted bug from VT2.
, point is: in all their updates, they mention how much they “listen” to player feedback and adjust things accordingly, and they have done great so far, yet they refuse to acknowledge the biggest feedback of all.